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Old September 24th, 2008, 09:06 AM   #141
ThatGuy
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But using that location jsut for retail that could EASILY be placed INSIDE the Grand Avenue (which would increase foot traffic there more than something a block away) is just plain stupid. If they are cutting things out, I call that rushed together.

I guarantee if we let them build what is essentially a shell of the former catalyst proposal, we will all be upset by it quite quickly as it is finnished. If it cannot be a GREAT proposal, then don't build it. I don't need a bunch of mediocre proposals taking up all the available land downtown.
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Old September 24th, 2008, 09:38 AM   #142
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I just like to point out a couple of things. First there is no shortage of available land downtown, and removing a parking lot for development is a great use of land. Secondly Ghazi's EpiCentre in Charlotte, NC also ended up scaling back but the retail section have been tremendously successful.

I know we have many bar districts but this setup would really be aimed at bringing the suburbanite downtown and appeasing the business traveler looking for a familiar establishment. I still hope it goes up.
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Old September 24th, 2008, 05:55 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatGuy View Post
But using that location jsut for retail that could EASILY be placed INSIDE the Grand Avenue (which would increase foot traffic there more than something a block away) is just plain stupid. If they are cutting things out, I call that rushed together.

I guarantee if we let them build what is essentially a shell of the former catalyst proposal, we will all be upset by it quite quickly as it is finnished. If it cannot be a GREAT proposal, then don't build it. I don't need a bunch of mediocre proposals taking up all the available land downtown.
Ghazi doesn't own Grand Ave. He has an option on 4th/Wisc. He cannot just easily put all of the tenants that he built a relationship with in his Charlotte project into the Grand Ave. If it were so easy, the owners of Grand Ave would have already done it.

The layout of Grand Ave does not work well for a movie theater and large entertainment. The Plankinton Arcade has already been messed with enough, and putting in a theater would require that it get completely covered. Grand Ave has great daytime traffic, but it needs night/weekend traffic to attract better tenants. That is exactly the kind of traffic that the Catalyst would bring to the area.

As Twoaday said, there are plenty of vacant lots downtown (Park East, along I-794) and several within just a few blocks of here (2nd/Michigan, 3rd/Wells, 8th/Wisc). Convention hotels, residential towers, etc. can easily go on those lots.
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Old September 24th, 2008, 09:02 PM   #144
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A couple weeks ago the Business Journal had a few articles on the status of The Shops at Grand Avenue. Even the mall's owners and tenants are supportive of Ghazi's Catalyst proposal and the potential it has to attract not only Downtown area residents and workers, but also students from the nearby colleges/universities, tourists, and conventioneers from the nearby convention center/arenas/theaters/hotels.

Catalyst and Grand Avenue would complement each other, not compete with each other. The types of businesses going into Catalyst are not necessarily the same types of businesses that exist currently, or could exist in the future, within the mall. They are things that may not fit, in the most literal sense, within the mall because of the size/space requirements needed or by the way the buildings are configured.

Also do not forget that Catalyst is not "just retail," a hotel is also in the plans, which is ideal for the convention center right across the street.


The omission of a tower certainly does not make the proposal mediocre, or rushed, or watered down. The utmost important aspects of the proposal, and their impacts on Downtown, are still in tact at this point.
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Old September 24th, 2008, 09:10 PM   #145
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What sort of influence does Marcus Corps. have on all this...if any...being that they plan on putting in a hotel right across the street from the Hilton? My sister used to work at the Hilton, now working at the Pfister. When I showed her the Catalyst plans, she insisted it wouldn't get built if Marcus has their say. I don't see how they could do anything to stop it, but was just curious if anyone might know differently.
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Old September 25th, 2008, 12:38 AM   #146
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Quote:
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What sort of influence does Marcus Corps. have on all this...if any...being that they plan on putting in a hotel right across the street from the Hilton? My sister used to work at the Hilton, now working at the Pfister. When I showed her the Catalyst plans, she insisted it wouldn't get built if Marcus has their say. I don't see how they could do anything to stop it, but was just curious if anyone might know differently.
This is just the sort of foolish rumor-mongering that makes some Milwaukeeans still sound like they live in a hopelessly backward ignorance-plagued European hamlet.

Don't know if your sister said what she did out of pride in being part of the Marcus organization, or if she half-whispered in that conspiratorial tone that tries to make any kind of nonsense sound as if it's some kind of dangerous secret knowledge.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but use your head.
More new hotel rooms = better chance for convention business = lower vacancies for all quality downtown hotels.
And even if Marcus Corp. was opposed, the city is not about to forego a new source of tax revenue.
Anything that actually enhances downtown benefits all concerned.
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Old September 25th, 2008, 03:56 AM   #147
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whoa whoa whao! Easy there gunner. My sister in no way shape or form represents Marcus nor meddles in their buisness ventures. Her reaction to the plans were instilled simply from her years of experience in working with Marcus, and knowing how they like to control anything they can. It was with niether a conspired nor arrogant mindset that she made those statements...she just knows how they like to play.

Perhaps I should have worded her reaction better in my post, I did make it sound like you are protraying now that I re-read it, but I assure you she isn't pulling any strings in this matter...and she sure as hell wasn't saying it out of pride.

Now, as for my head...
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Old September 25th, 2008, 05:40 AM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by =dba=Ronin View Post
whoa whoa whao! Easy there gunner. My sister in no way shape or form represents Marcus nor meddles in their buisness ventures. Her reaction to the plans were instilled simply from her years of experience in working with Marcus, and knowing how they like to control anything they can. It was with niether a conspired nor arrogant mindset that she made those statements...she just knows how they like to play.

Perhaps I should have worded her reaction better in my post, I did make it sound like you are protraying now that I re-read it, but I assure you she isn't pulling any strings in this matter...and she sure as hell wasn't saying it out of pride.

Now, as for my head...
Just ignore his rants and don't feel sorry for bruising his feelings. The worst he'll do is pull out a half-arsed attempt at sarcasm via photo montage.
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Old September 25th, 2008, 05:49 AM   #149
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what exactly is ghazi's drama in NC..?
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Old September 25th, 2008, 07:18 AM   #150
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Quote:
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whoa whoa whao! Easy there gunner.
I should have some way of expressing myself without personalizing things.

But a question remains. You say your sister doesn't meddle in Marcus Corp. business ventures, but can you reveal, without jeopardizing her position within the company, an example she provides of her understanding of how they operate?

My actual concern is about propagating images of a non-governmental entity, in this case about Marcus Corp., having the power to control what gets built by others.
I know this is a very casual forum, but that's still a rather serious accusation, based on, as far as I can tell, one individual's impression of their employer.
It's unlikely anyone on this site would be in a position to actually refute or confirm it other than by logical inference, so it in a sense just remains "out there" -- possibly true, or half-true, or completely ridiculous -- and that, to my mind, is rumor-mongering, and simply shouldn't be engaged in.

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The worst he'll do is pull out a half-arsed attempt at sarcasm via photo montage.
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Last edited by looksee; September 25th, 2008 at 07:43 AM.
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Old September 25th, 2008, 08:42 PM   #151
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Quote:
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But a question remains. You say your sister doesn't meddle in Marcus Corp. business ventures, but can you reveal, without jeopardizing her position within the company, an example she provides of her understanding of how they operate?
Not really. I dont get into too many discussions with her about her work. I just know she huffs and puffs a lot when she does talk about them. Besides, her position is localized and not involved at the root level. Its no different than anyone else having an opinion of the company they work for.

Quote:
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My actual concern is about propagating images of a non-governmental entity, in this case about Marcus Corp., having the power to control what gets built by others.
I know this is a very casual forum, but that's still a rather serious accusation, based on, as far as I can tell, one individual's impression of their employer.
It's unlikely anyone on this site would be in a position to actually refute or confirm it other than by logical inference, so it in a sense just remains "out there" -- possibly true, or half-true, or completely ridiculous -- and that, to my mind, is rumor-mongering, and simply shouldn't be engaged in.
This was by no means an accusation or an attempt at instilling propaganda. It was a simple opinion. She wasn't saying what she thought might happen will happen...that is why I was asking whether or not anyone heard anything like it happening.

Your tactic of avoiding engagement is a bit stark. This is afterall a discussion forum, which you yourself pointed out. If you want to limit the discussions to only absoloute truths you probablly wouldn't have much to talk about.

You can perceive this however you wish, but I am not too afraid that a runaway rumor-mill has been instigated.
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Old September 26th, 2008, 12:15 AM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by =dba=Ronin View Post
Your tactic of avoiding engagement is a bit stark.
Duh???

Quote:
but I am not too afraid that a runaway rumor-mill has been instigated.
How reassuring that you understand how false accusations never get going.
Rule1: Consider the source.

(The above response may qualify as 1/2 arsed sarcasm, minus the photo montage.)
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Old September 28th, 2008, 03:57 AM   #153
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From an out of towner's perspective - having read different things about development plans in Milwaukee on this site for the past several years - the idea that Marcus might oppose a hotel doesn't sound surprising. It seems like this has happened a time or two in the past several years - primarily when there was discussion about some type of city subsidy to help build a new hotel. It also sounds like what I was reading a few years ago with regard to the Pabst brewery redevelopment. A lot of local businesses were opposing city assistance for that project - and it stopped it - at least for a while, didn't it? (Although, I think something is happening at the Pabst site now, isn't it?) It seems like Milwaukee and Cincinnati are the two Midwest cities where the most controversy occurs relating to city subsidies for projects, in my opinion.
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Old January 19th, 2009, 07:05 AM   #154
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Has anybody heard anything on this project? last I heard the were financial "disputes".
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Old January 20th, 2009, 07:50 PM   #155
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I believe it's been cancelled for now due to the economy.
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Old January 21st, 2009, 01:27 AM   #156
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The Redevelopment Authority gave them a 6-month extension in December.
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Old March 11th, 2009, 07:14 AM   #157
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New rendering available on the ghazi website. I don't know how long it's been up there.

http://www.theghazicompany.com/futur.../catalyst.html
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Old March 11th, 2009, 10:29 PM   #158
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F.Y.I.



http://www.theghazicompany.com/futur.../catalyst.html
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Old March 11th, 2009, 10:44 PM   #159
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It would be terrific for the city if this could still get built. I wonder if the city won't consider some further TIF money in this market.
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Old March 11th, 2009, 10:54 PM   #160
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Ghazi website

That first picture is about 10 stories shorter than the others. It looks like crap! a 15-story building is not suited for that prominent location. It is more suited for a taller 20+ story structure as posted in the 2nd picture. Not sure they are for real based on the rendering discrepancy. I do like the 2nd rendering and hope this takes off when the economy shows some signs of growth.
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