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Old August 22nd, 2010, 02:30 AM   #3101
blagun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg View Post
3 is changed now. if you look at rarse's 1st post:
Last edited by rarse; Yesterday at 05:33 PM.
Rarse uses a sector of the roundabout which can be considered as a part of H2.
My proposal is to avoid this roundabout driving on the white road on Google maps.
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Old August 22nd, 2010, 04:34 AM   #3102
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An old photo (from 1980s) of the northern LJ bypass without the World Trade Center (built in 1993):


Photo: Dragan Arrigler

I think it looked pretty boring without it.


http://img.siol.net/10/191/634143701...avtocesta1.jpg
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Old August 22nd, 2010, 11:41 AM   #3103
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I can't open the first pic.
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НЕ ИЗПОЛЗВАЙТЕ GOOGLE-СКИ САЙТОВЕ ЗА ХОСТИНГ НА СНИМКИ!!!
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Old August 22nd, 2010, 04:42 PM   #3104
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^ What about now?

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Old August 22nd, 2010, 05:22 PM   #3105
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yeah, putting it in your photobucket album certainly will make it more sure. I see both.
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Old August 22nd, 2010, 11:17 PM   #3106
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http://www.panoramio.com/photo/36032799

Hehe, Austrians signed Maribor also to the old road because of the Slovenian vignette. (this guy has a lot of road pics, btw)
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 03:48 AM   #3107
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and really nice ones!! we should invite him to join ssc forum.
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Old August 26th, 2010, 05:12 PM   #3108
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A short today-historic report from border crossings near Nova Gorica, more particulary I will describe how was going on the 10 days war for Slovenian independence (juin - july 1991) on those border crossings (source: my father, a soldier in a unit, which covered this area).

so we will take a short trip from Rozna Dolina near Nova Gorica, along the border towards Kras:



starting in Rozna Dolina, heading for Italy










at this border crossing, there was the hardest battle in this area with JLA (Yugoslav army). JLA was quite numberous (115 soldiers) and they had 5 tanks guarding the border crossing. Unit of slovene Teritorial defence (TO) where without any vehicles, but they had a one of those RPG or something similar. so, because negotiations failed, TO (they were hiding behind one of these bulidings on the right) lauched one RPG in a JLA's tank, one JLA soldier was killed, and rest of them surrendered imediately.

from the book (http://www.velenje.zvvs.si/publikacije.htm)

(Vojna za Slovenijo 1991
Publikacija ob 15. obletnici osamosvojitve Slovenije
Urednik publikacije: Albin Mikulič, 28.april 2006
Avtor: vojaški muzej Slovenske vojske)

"At the border crossing in Rožna Valley, between
Nova Gorica and Gorizia on the Slovenian and
Italian side were placed
115 members of the JLA. They were well
armed, and had a five tanks.
In spite of the unfavorable relationship of forces Territorial Defence of
Territorial and policemen attacked the border crossing point.
Army officers soon recognized
hopeless situation, so they surrendered.
Liberation of the border crossing in Rožna
Valley has a significant impact on further
developments in Primorska (slovene littoral) ."










20 years ago:





so going to the next border crossing - Vrtojba/San Andrea:

notice the red italian building:




















approaching rouadabout










border crossing from italian side:












taking the fist exit to make a U turn




and slovenian side:


first section of H4 was opened in 1996 (till Selo), although the border crossing existed before, here is a map from 1980 showing that short section of H4: (yeah, I had to improved it )



so, at this border crossing, there was also a unit of JLA, and TO (slovene teritorial defence) were approaching from the village Vrtojba. but they didn't have a lot of work here, since negotiations between slovene police and JLA were succesfull here and they surrendered without a fight.













continuing towards A4... haha, I am kidding! I wish...
















turnig left to Slovenia






not a good road on Kras plateau




now, in Nova vas, near Opatje Selo, there was a third point with JLA in this area. JLA (1 officer and 15 soldier, some of them even slovenes) was staying in small guardhouse near the border. TO surrounded them. they started negotiations, my father told me it went something like that:
"you're surrounded, please exit ... (and similar on), and the answer of that JLA officer was always: "Necu" (I don't want in srbo-croatian). so this went on for 3 times, then this officer ordered his soldiers to throw hand grenates around, but that didn't do any damage, moreover soldiers didn't want to listen to his orders. they just wanted to go home. he also started shooting at his own soldiers to make them obey, and he also told that he has 2 Minobacac or Mortar in english, directed to the churh bell in Opatje selo and to the gas station in Opatje Selo.
so when TO saw, that the only problem is him, rafal (eng. burst) from automatic firearm from TO took him down when he showed up from a cover.

there is a memorial in Nova vas:



but I couldn't find a guardhouse, I don't believe that it still exist.

edit: it does: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sour....panoramio.all



lost


must be 50m before italian border






a church bell of Opatje selo seen from Nova vas (where "Minobacac" () was pointed to)





going back




Vipava vally from Italy


almost forgot: big surrender of JLA in Sempeter near Nova Gorica (that sign was replaced)


anyway, Rozna Dolina border crossing from italian side










Nova Gorica - gambling town


that's all.

Last edited by hofburg; August 26th, 2010 at 09:42 PM.
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Old August 26th, 2010, 06:42 PM   #3109
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I didn't realize that those battles happened so close to the Italian border. I thought most of them happened in eastern Slovenia.
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Old August 26th, 2010, 07:00 PM   #3110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I didn't realize that those battles happened so close to the Italian border. I thought most of them happened in eastern Slovenia.
mostly they were all around the border, also Fernetici and Skofije, http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slika:S...an_war_map.jpg

don't worry, there was Italian army (with few 10 tanks) watching carefully on the other side.
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Old August 26th, 2010, 07:07 PM   #3111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg View Post
mostly they were all around the border, also Fernetici and Skofije, http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slika:S...an_war_map.jpg
I was 12 at the time... I remember the war vaguely, at that age I was more interested in other things

Quote:
don't worry, there was Italian army (with few 10 tanks) watching carefully on the other side.
I never thought that the battles could come on our side It was pretty much and internal Yugoslavian thing (even if NATO intervened heavily in Kossovo, some time later)
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Old August 26th, 2010, 07:10 PM   #3112
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Thank you very much for this interesting series! Hvala!
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Old August 26th, 2010, 07:24 PM   #3113
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you're welcome.
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Old August 26th, 2010, 07:44 PM   #3114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg View Post
don't worry, there was Italian army (with few 10 tanks) watching carefully on the other side.
...there were Alpini (so called italian alpine troops) of Brigata "Cadore" (Belluno-Feltre-Pieve di Cadore) at Uccea's border
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Old August 26th, 2010, 08:25 PM   #3115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg View Post
Internally-lit signs.

Interesting report, hofburg. I spent the war by my grandparents in Ljubljana. We moved out of our commieblock for those ten days, because it was built by the Yugoslav army. Just in case.
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Old August 26th, 2010, 08:27 PM   #3116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3naranze View Post
...there were Alpini (so called italian alpine troops) of Brigata "Cadore" (Belluno-Feltre-Pieve di Cadore) at Uccea's border
didn't know that.

there's even a video of battle in rozna dolina.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtPIz9uJdys#t=02m38s

hehe Verso, so what were you expecting? that JLA will use it?

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Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Internally-lit signs.
I noticed that.

Last edited by hofburg; August 26th, 2010 at 08:33 PM.
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Old August 26th, 2010, 08:41 PM   #3117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg View Post
hehe Verso, so what were you expecting? that JLA will use it?
We weren't enthusiastic about spending the war in a block full of Yugoslav (Serbian) officers.
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Old August 26th, 2010, 08:44 PM   #3118
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I know that we're going off topic, but what did you Slovenes think about the war, back then? I mean, did you think it was gonna last only 10 days or did you expect something longer and worse?
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Old August 26th, 2010, 09:07 PM   #3119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I know that we're going off topic, but what did you Slovenes think about the war, back then? I mean, did you think it was gonna last only 10 days or did you expect something longer and worse?
I was 8, so I didn't know much what was going on, I just remember it freaked me out every time I heard military planes over Ljubljana. I also remember signs for mines on one of Ljubljana's arterial roads. In any case, even just 10 days in war feel like eternity.
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Old August 26th, 2010, 09:26 PM   #3120
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I was 3, and I remember going in a basement because of sirens.
but in general, I think Slovenia wasn't prepared for anything longer then 10 days. we took advantage in big mess in JLA (they didn't even know what are they fighting for) and block avery action in its begining. during the war there was also a huge diplomatic movement of our politicians, we always tried to stop the fire even in if we have to give up something (brion declaration which finished the war was a bad compromis for us). Also knowing that JLA was one of the biggest army in europe at that time, we couldn't afford a long war, so everybody relaxed when they went away on the ship in Koper.
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