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Old August 26th, 2010, 09:54 PM   #3121
g.spinoza
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Ah ok, you were too young to really realize what was happening.

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Originally Posted by hofburg View Post
(brion declaration which finished the war was a bad compromis for us).
Don't get me wrong, hofburg, but in Italian literature Brion declaration is regarded as an overwhelming victory for Slovenia. You got freedom, independence, territorial integrity, you took most of the Yugoslav weapons and war vehicles left on Slovenian territory... what could you possibly want more?
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Old August 26th, 2010, 10:17 PM   #3122
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Ah ok, you were too young to really realize what was happening.
Well, we knew it was war, but yeah, we didn't know the background. I remember just a few months before the war, I didn't wanna eat something for lunch (must've been cooked (stuffed) pepper (paprika), I hate that ), and my mum asked me, if I'd eat them, if there was a war and we didn't have anything else. I replied arrogantly: "And why the hell would there be a war in Slovenia?!" So yeah, I didn't have a clue.
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Old August 26th, 2010, 10:39 PM   #3123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Ah ok, you were too young to really realize what was happening.

Don't get me wrong, hofburg, but in Italian literature Brion declaration is regarded as an overwhelming victory for Slovenia. You got freedom, independence, territorial integrity, you took most of the Yugoslav weapons and war vehicles left on Slovenian territory... what could you possibly want more?
we had to froze independence activies for 3 months. independence wasn't guaranted. also, all controls, borders, air... went back to federal, and also in slovenian article it says - "return the Army equipment back to JLA"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brijuni_Agreement

in reality then it wasn't like this, because we looked between the lines what we can do, also there was a war going on in other republics, so nobody paid attention to slovenia.
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Old August 26th, 2010, 11:00 PM   #3124
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Originally Posted by hofburg View Post
we had to froze independence activies for 3 months. independence wasn't guaranted.
Ok, but I remember vividly that independence was never threatened. It wasn't guaranteed, it was just an article that you Slovenians could afford to concede to the Yugoslav, because you knew that nothing could stop your independence.

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also, all controls, borders, air... went back to federal,
Didn't know that. For how long? Just the three months or longer?

Quote:
and also in slovenian article it says - "return the Army equipment back to JLA"
Eheh. Different languages in Wikipedia, different versions...

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in reality then it wasn't like this, because we looked between the lines what we can do, also there was a war going on in other republics, so nobody paid attention to slovenia.
I think this is key here. As a matter of fact Brioni agreement saved you from being involved in the much harsher Croatian and Bosnian wars. Slovenian authorities knew that they could afford some non-substantial concessions to the Yugoslav because they would be much into Croatia and BiH affairs.

I mean, after winning WW1 in Italy there was a diffuse sentiment of "mutilated victory": before the war Italy was promised many territories, but only some of them were given to Italy after the war, so population was very discontent (and that's one of the reasons for the rise of fascism and Benito Mussolini)

Obviously this is not the case with Slovenia here. You won, made some minor concessions to the Yugoslavs just to get them off your tails, but you managed to keep out of the tragedy and become the most developed country in the region.
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Old August 27th, 2010, 04:33 AM   #3125
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Didn't know that. For how long? Just the three months or longer?
Yes, I think just for 3 months. Btw, control of border crossings went to the Slovenian police, but in accordance with federal regulations.

http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brionsk...5.BEim_na_meji
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Old August 27th, 2010, 12:01 PM   #3126
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Yes, it was a 3 months delay of implementing of our (SI and HR) declarations of independence (June 25 1991). That's why i.e. we here in Cro celebrate out Statehood Day June 25 but our Independence Day is the 8th of October, 3 months after the Brijuni agreement (that’s when the declaration became official).

Sorry for OT
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Old August 27th, 2010, 12:21 PM   #3127
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It was nice talking with you all about this.

... but I think we should go back in topic
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Old August 27th, 2010, 01:41 PM   #3128
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Giorgio Santuz, now president FVG strade (FVG's roads: regional roads agency), during his last speech as Autovie's president (A28+A23+A4:VE-TS) has reminded when there were the iron courtain and the war in Yugoslavia in 1991: at that time there were very poor traffic and roads, almost no goods interchange. now the first goal of Autovie is to widen the A4 motorway (and RA to Gorizia) to permit a safe growth of a more and more increasing goods and touristic interchange
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Old August 27th, 2010, 02:55 PM   #3129
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besides widening A4 and RA Gorizia, they should do something with fernetici/fernetti. direction I -> SLO is ok, but SLO - I you have to make a U turn to get to A4.
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Old August 27th, 2010, 04:40 PM   #3130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3naranze View Post
Giorgio Santuz, now president FVG strade (FVG's roads: regional roads agency), during his last speech as Autovie's president (A28+A23+A4:VE-TS) has reminded when there were the iron courtain and the war in Yugoslavia in 1991: at that time there were very poor traffic and roads, almost no goods interchange.
That's not entirely true. Yugoslavs were flocking in Trieste back then. But yeah, there was probably less traffic with the rest of Italy, not to mention you hardly saw registration plates from the Eastern Bloc.

Last edited by Verso; August 27th, 2010 at 05:01 PM.
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Old August 27th, 2010, 06:15 PM   #3131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg View Post
besides widening A4 and RA Gorizia, they should do something with fernetici/fernetti. direction I -> SLO is ok, but SLO - I you have to make a U turn to get to A4.
U turn? you make 330° there, that's more than U but when there are booths remaining, there is no need to change it.
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Old August 28th, 2010, 10:06 AM   #3132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
That's not entirely true. Yugoslavs were flocking in Trieste back then.
yes, you're right, I remember pics of trieste's piers full of yugoslavian coaches. but that touristic flow was particular: Yugoslavians were looking for goods that Yugoslavia wasn't able to manufacture, such blue jeans, effective washing powders, fine underwear and stockings. this import was forbidden (formally): so, e.g., they were used to wear the new clothes in the fitting room and then they laid the old ones on the floor of the store...(source: beppe severgnini, italian journalist and travel writer)
nowadays is quite different, luckily. (to name but a few):
some italian entrepreneurs are looking for places at Bertoki's new industrial zone, many italian kids are attending slovenian primary school near Ankaran and Skofjie, Ikea store at Villesse has been planned to serve Slovenia too (il piccolo) and many slovenian tourists spent their holidays in dolomiti ski area (BL-TN-BZ).

Last edited by 3naranze; August 28th, 2010 at 10:48 AM.
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Old August 28th, 2010, 12:05 PM   #3133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3naranze View Post
when there were the iron courtain
The border control was heavy but it wasn't THE iron curtain (that one was further northeast between Yugoslavia and Hungary).
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Old August 28th, 2010, 11:23 PM   #3134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3naranze View Post
so, e.g., they were used to wear the new clothes in the fitting room and then they laid the old ones on the floor of the store...
They wore several new clothes, so Italian customs officers probably thought all Yugoslavs were fat. (but they probably knew what was going on)
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Old August 28th, 2010, 11:57 PM   #3135
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eh, of course they knew. funy thing, mostly officers at I - SLO border weren't slovenes but from the other end of Yugoslavia. If they were slovenes, "import" would have been even bigger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by x-type View Post
U turn? you make 330° there, that's more than U but when there are booths remaining, there is no need to change it.
yes 330°. but how are border booths in the way to make a normal straight road?
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Old August 29th, 2010, 12:18 PM   #3136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg View Post
because negotiations failed, TO (they were hiding behind one of these bulidings on the right) lauched one RPG in a JLA's tank, one JLA soldier was killed, and rest of them surrendered imediately.
hilarious one killed
Why JLA? What does it stand for?

BTW
There were no war in Slovenia, because in Slovenia situation was clear almost 100% of population of Slovenia are Slovenes. And outside of Slovenia there were no important Sloven settlement.
It wasn´t mess like in Croatia or Bosnia.
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Old August 29th, 2010, 09:47 PM   #3137
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Quote:
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Why JLA? What does it stand for?
Jugoslovanska ljudska armada
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Old August 29th, 2010, 09:52 PM   #3138
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sounds powerful armada heheh
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Old August 31st, 2010, 03:24 PM   #3139
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weather was nice.. good enough to take some photos. A1









due to these roadworks the jam was mentioned few posts earlier
























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Old September 1st, 2010, 01:48 AM   #3140
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Nice pics. Still my favorite Slovenian motorway. It's quite ironic that it's the busiest Slovenian motorway when it actually goes through one of the most sparsely populated parts of Slovenia. You hardly see a few houses between Vrhnika and Postojna.
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