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Old January 6th, 2011, 11:33 PM   #3361
hofburg
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the rest of the photos, I didn't have time at the airport.

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I hope your flight will be ok not like the last time
thanks, it was.

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Haha, at 14.18 a plane arrived from Paris with my sister's friends.
It was the same plane then.













































what it bothered me a bit, was the sign for Brnik at the motorway, first it shows 2 times just a vilage Brnik, and then the 3rd sign is "aerodrom". unclear for foreign passangers I think.
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Old January 6th, 2011, 11:47 PM   #3362
il brutto
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Where did you see a sign for Umag? I only know about a sign for Poreč (but without 'Parenzo').
Now you've got me, I'm only about 70% sure I've seen it, no idea where but likely somewhere before Sečovlje border crossing.

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The signs on the pic are from times of Yugoslavia, because there's no HR oval by Zagreb, I remember them since always and we haven't put new internally-lit signs for a long time. They remind me of Belgium, btw.
Also Maribor is now closer than 134 km
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Old January 7th, 2011, 01:01 AM   #3363
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I'm not a linguist, but I can bet you any money that standard Slovenian is influenced by all neighboring languages (which is understandable).
Slovenian standard language dates back to 16th century. Tell me please, how did Italian influence on Trubar & co. or which are loan words from Italian in standard Slovenian, except those present around the world (pizza, spaghetti, opera). There isn't even any important influence from German except some words, most of them used in dialects.
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Old January 7th, 2011, 01:19 AM   #3364
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so how would you explain that slov. language sounds clearer and harder then other south slavic languages for example? that's because of the proximity of latin and germanic languages.
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Old January 7th, 2011, 01:25 AM   #3365
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I don't think Latin languages sound harder, German yes ... But I wasn't talking about how it sounds, I was asking about the influence of German and especially Italian on standard Slovenian, not on the sound. And I disagree that other South Slavic languages don't sound "clear".
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Old January 7th, 2011, 01:34 AM   #3366
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with clear I ment clearer syllables, as italian language has. well, i think other south slavic languages have more "j-s" in words. look at the example Reka/Rijeka. Reka is very clear, Rijeka you can get from our littoral dialect, we say rjeka. of course word roots are stricly of slavic origin, but sound is changed due to what I said before.
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Old January 7th, 2011, 01:48 AM   #3367
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But Serbs also say Reka, and in my dialect we could say Rejka . I was just saying that there is not much influence on standard Slovenian from Italian and even not from German. I was checking for some articles about the influence on the internet, but I couldn't found something interesting.
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Old January 7th, 2011, 01:51 AM   #3368
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didn't know that. so only Croats love "j-s" then
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Old January 7th, 2011, 02:01 AM   #3369
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I personally only know of one (prominent) example of Italian creeping into standard Slovenian:

manjkati - mancare - to be missing

But I'm pretty sure there are other examples as well, I remember there were a few our Slovenian language professor mentioned in secondary school (she was from Primorska hehe) and some were pretty obvious ones
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Old January 7th, 2011, 02:03 AM   #3370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmartin View Post
Slovenian standard language dates back to 16th century. Tell me please, how did Italian influence on Trubar & co. or which are loan words from Italian in standard Slovenian, except those present around the world (pizza, spaghetti, opera).
mama

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There isn't even any important influence from German except some words, most of them used in dialects.
http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seznam_...C5%A1%C4%8Dini
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sloweni...che#Wortschatz

Even from Friulian (which we never hear). But I'm sure also from Croatian, Hungarian etc.


Welcome back, hofburg!
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Old January 7th, 2011, 02:29 AM   #3371
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back to where? anyway thanks.
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Old January 7th, 2011, 02:31 AM   #3372
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Well, that's a huge number of loan words, Verso! Loan words are sth. every language has.

I was asking about influence on standard language, grammar ...
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Old January 7th, 2011, 03:17 AM   #3373
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I don't know, I thought you were talking about loan words.

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back to where?
SSC. Interesting pics, we haven't photographed roads all the way to the airport.
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Old January 7th, 2011, 06:39 AM   #3374
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Well influences can sometimes be quite dastardly. I mean look at Celtic's influence on English--visible influence is confined effectively to place names, but then there is a school of thought that says that some of the most unusual English constructions vis--vis other Germanic languages, Romance languages, and the Western European Sprachbund as a whole (hey! I just used two foreignese constructions! ) are actually Celtic in origin.

For instance, we Anglophones tend to start questions like Do you want to go to the park? or Do you have anything to do? whereas a German would say Wollen Sie in den Park gehen? or Haben Sie etwas zu tun? and such. It's very unusual. Only French, among common European languages, has a construction that comes close--Est-ce que vous voulez aller au parque? or Est-ce que vous avez quelque chose faire? where the est-ce que "is it that" construction performs the same role as the English do, in these cases. It's obviously not Germanic in origin (German has a wholly different construction); nor is it Romance--the French construction is likewise unusual--Italian constructions like Vu andare al parco? or Non ha niente che far'? are far more typical. In fact, odd constructions like these seem to have a Celtic origin--since languages like Welsh, Irish, Scots, and Breton maintain odd features of this sort. The strong English preference for using the continuous tense in present-tense situations (cf. I am going to the store vs. I go to the store) is echoed nowhere else in common Western European languages--save in the British Celtic languages the very earliest English variants coexisted with* and eventually replaced.

All of which is to say that even if Italian and German have had relatively little influence on Slovenian's vocabulary, they may have had more insidious influence on its grammar, or (gasp!) its very euphony (or phonetics--the way the language sounds--capeesh**?)
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* By contrast, English verb phrases (to coexist with, for example) and stronger phrasal verbs (to go by = "to pass") are very clearly Germanic in origin. Cf. German words like aufgehen "to rise", for example.
** Borrowed from Italian capesci "you (fam.) understand", a form of capire "to understand".
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Old January 7th, 2011, 11:07 AM   #3375
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Originally Posted by x-type View Post
about lit signs - these look quite new, but the blu colour tells me they are probably at least 15 years old, right?
They are between 20 - 25 years old. Arial typeface was being used from opening of Ljubljana-Kranj motorway in 1984. Before that typeface was not very consistent beside the rule that only uppercase letters were used.
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Old January 7th, 2011, 12:08 PM   #3376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammersklavier View Post
Italian constructions like Vu andare al parco? or Non ha niente che far'? are far more typical.

** Borrowed from Italian capesci "you (fam.) understand", a form of capire "to understand".
All your Italian words and phrases are wrong.

"Vu andare al parco?" is actually "Vuoi andare al parco?", "Non ha niente che far'?" is actually "Non ha niente da fare?"

And "capesci" is some American-reconstructed word... the correct one is "capisci"... it beats me how this word leaked into American English, since nobody in Italy uses it... to ask "do you understand?" in Italian we say "hai capito?" not "capisci?"
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Old January 7th, 2011, 04:55 PM   #3377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammersklavier View Post
Well influences can sometimes be quite dastardly. I mean look at Celtic's influence on English--visible influence is confined effectively to place names, but then there is a school of thought that says that some of the most unusual English constructions vis--vis other Germanic languages, Romance languages, and the Western European Sprachbund as a whole (hey! I just used two foreignese constructions! ) are actually Celtic in origin.

For instance, we Anglophones tend to start questions like Do you want to go to the park? or Do you have anything to do? whereas a German would say Wollen Sie in den Park gehen? or Haben Sie etwas zu tun? and such. It's very unusual. Only French, among common European languages, has a construction that comes close--Est-ce que vous voulez aller au parque? or Est-ce que vous avez quelque chose faire? where the est-ce que "is it that" construction performs the same role as the English do, in these cases. It's obviously not Germanic in origin (German has a wholly different construction); nor is it Romance--the French construction is likewise unusual--Italian constructions like Vu andare al parco? or Non ha niente che far'? are far more typical. In fact, odd constructions like these seem to have a Celtic origin--since languages like Welsh, Irish, Scots, and Breton maintain odd features of this sort. The strong English preference for using the continuous tense in present-tense situations (cf. I am going to the store vs. I go to the store) is echoed nowhere else in common Western European languages--save in the British Celtic languages the very earliest English variants coexisted with* and eventually replaced.

All of which is to say that even if Italian and German have had relatively little influence on Slovenian's vocabulary, they may have had more insidious influence on its grammar, or (gasp!) its very euphony (or phonetics--the way the language sounds--capeesh**?)
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* By contrast, English verb phrases (to coexist with, for example) and stronger phrasal verbs (to go by = "to pass") are very clearly Germanic in origin. Cf. German words like aufgehen "to rise", for example.
** Borrowed from Italian capesci "you (fam.) understand", a form of capire "to understand".
Interesting. I also think there're many hidden influences on Slovenian from other languages.

But let's get back on topic.
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Old January 17th, 2011, 01:15 AM   #3378
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This is the first time I see "Pola" (Italian) written before "Pula" (Croatian):


http://www.panoramio.com/photo/25378520 by turcospiaggia
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Old January 17th, 2011, 04:46 PM   #3379
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On 1st July 2011 the general speed limit on expressways will be raised from 100 to 110 km/h!

http://www.uradni-list.si/1/objava.j...&stevilka=5733 (Article 46)
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Old January 17th, 2011, 04:51 PM   #3380
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Great! Speed limits going up all over Europe

The fines are also going up? I noticed they make a difference if you speed in a pedestrian area, urban area or rural area.
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