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Old September 2nd, 2011, 08:31 PM   #3681
RipleyLV
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Interesting. Will something similiar be implemented on other motorways?
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Old September 2nd, 2011, 09:01 PM   #3682
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H4 Nanos - Nova Gorica

21. So it's now A4?


28. Motorway (A4?) ends and after 700m
That part is also H4 (hitra cesta/expressway), but I don't understand why it has green markings (and is signed as motorway) Does anyone know? Keber?

The A4 motorway is the one from Maribor to Gruškovje border crossing:
http://www.wikimapia.org/#lat=46.398...5&z=11&l=0&m=o
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Old September 2nd, 2011, 09:30 PM   #3683
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That part is also H4 (hitra cesta/expressway), but I don't understand why it has green markings (and is signed as motorway) Does anyone know? Keber?

The A4 motorway is the one from Maribor to Gruškovje border crossing:
http://www.wikimapia.org/#lat=46.398...5&z=11&l=0&m=o
probably the reason is somewhere in the fact that this is the oldest part of H4. possibly in that time A and H marks were not established yet, and there were not existant standards for motorways to distinguish them from expressways, as today are known in SLO. so it remained. something similar as our D3 road - you know that it's route has been moved to motorway because there were not existant A marks. when they appeared, D3 was interrupted by motorway sections at many places and it remained so (i think they have changed it just 2-3 years ago).

btw i don't like SLO direction signs at all. they are clear and visible, but oldfashioned, unconsistant and ugly
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Old September 3rd, 2011, 01:46 AM   #3684
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Yeah that's probably the reason, they decided the last part is good enough for motorway speed (though I don't see the difference) and it's simpler to just keep the same name for the whole stretch of the road.

As for the green emergeny niche sign - that part was finished in 1999. The oldest "Rules on traffic signs and equipment on public roads" available online are from 2000 and they already include blue version of the sign, but apparently in the old Rules there was only green sign. This is of course no excuse for not changing the sign later.
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Old September 3rd, 2011, 03:55 AM   #3685
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nice photos from the upper point of view.

the green part was built in 1996. curves of the H4 are all along the same, except the last part near Nanos, so I think the reason for a motorway speed limit is absence of the bora wind at that part.

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btw i don't like SLO direction signs at all. they are clear and visible, but oldfashioned, unconsistant and ugly
but yours are almost the same.
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Old September 3rd, 2011, 05:19 AM   #3686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RipleyLV View Post
Time to spam this page with more pictures.

H4 Nanos - Nova Gorica

Map of the route:

Very nice report. I like your smart and relevant comments for each photo and external links with additional info.
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Old September 3rd, 2011, 11:44 AM   #3687
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Quote:
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Interesting. Will something similiar be implemented on other motorways?
It is being implemented with reconstruction of those passes on other motorways one pass at a time.

As for green H4: I closely follow construction of Slovenian motorways already from late 1980-ies (I really need to scan those old newspaper articles someday) and H4 was always meant to be motorway through whole length. Planning for that motorway began already in 1970-ies and border crossing was built in 1980. As there is a lot of very valuable agricultural land in Vipava valley and another motorway was planned toward Trieste (as primary connection to Italy which would take majority of traffic) it was decided, that this motorway will be built without emergency lane so save land and cost (this was common in seventies and eighties even elsewhere in Western Europe).

Regarding speed it was still designed as motorway, so next section, opened in 1996 it was opened as motorway but also toll-charged as such. At that time locals feared that they will get toll stations at all exits so they resisted and eventually it was decided that all following sections become expressway without tolls. Even today with vignettes it remains so and it will in the future - at least speed limit is raised from 100 to 110 km/h from 1st July 2011.
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Old September 3rd, 2011, 12:14 PM   #3688
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Quote:
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As for green H4: I closely follow construction of Slovenian motorways already from late 1980-ies (I really need to scan those old newspaper articles someday) and H4 was always meant to be motorway through whole length. Planning for that motorway began already in 1970-ies and border crossing was built in 1980. As there is a lot of very valuable agricultural land in Vipava valley and another motorway was planned toward Trieste (as primary connection to Italy which would take majority of traffic) it was decided, that this motorway will be built without emergency lane so save land and cost (this was common in seventies and eighties even elsewhere in Western Europe).

Regarding speed it was still designed as motorway, so next section, opened in 1996 it was opened as motorway but also toll-charged as such. At that time locals feared that they will get toll stations at all exits so they resisted and eventually it was decided that all following sections become expressway without tolls. Even today with vignettes it remains so and it will in the future - at least speed limit is raised from 100 to 110 km/h from 1st July 2011.
Thanks So the story is similar to that of A5, although A5 kept its motorway status even without hard shoulders.
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Old September 3rd, 2011, 01:54 PM   #3689
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Not really. H4 became expressway from day 1 because of local officials being afraid of tolls.

A5 kept its status because it rarely happens to declassify any important road. Then we could declasify A2 around Jesenice and between Grosuplje and Višnja Gora.
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Old September 3rd, 2011, 03:49 PM   #3690
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Quote:
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but yours are almost the same.
oh no, they are not. only the font is similar/same. HR signs have completely different arrows, they are extended in vertical direction (SLO in horizontal), txt boxes for road numbers in HR are unified, in SLO there are more versions and similar detalis. generally, i find HR direction signs much better designed.

(also, HR signs are made of those really cool metal strips, while SLO are made of oldfashioned tin plates )
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Old September 3rd, 2011, 03:59 PM   #3691
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Apart from road number boxes, which are a bit different on some signs because one of the companies that makes them is very sloppy, what is so inconsistent about Slovenian signs?

Oh yeah and don't forget that a few years ago they changed the design of the number boxes:

old
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new
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Old September 3rd, 2011, 04:05 PM   #3692
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that's inconsistent - mixture of old and new signs. when all old will be replaced, it will be better situation.
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Old September 3rd, 2011, 04:45 PM   #3693
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That's true, inconsistency is almost a trade mark for Dars motorway company. Just look at above pictures and compare destinations written there and their order. With every new iteration it is becoming worse. The best signage was made between 1985 and 1995.

(another thing, there are few signs close to Bled, which show that between Bohinj and Bled is just 10 km distance which in fact it is at least 20 km)
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Old September 3rd, 2011, 05:47 PM   #3694
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(If the sign says Bohinj, it's correct, Bohinj starts at Nomenj Though of course everybody goes to the lake.)
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Old September 3rd, 2011, 06:00 PM   #3695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
That's true, inconsistency is almost a trade mark for Dars motorway company. Just look at above pictures and compare destinations written there and their order. With every new iteration it is becoming worse. The best signage was made between 1985 and 1995.

(another thing, there are few signs close to Bled, which show that between Bohinj and Bled is just 10 km distance which in fact it is at least 20 km)
They should make the technical standards for traffic signs public. I have to agree that it is getting worse, and the worst ones are in Štajerska, around Maribor the new signs are horrible.
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Old September 3rd, 2011, 06:29 PM   #3696
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They should make the technical standards for traffic signs public.
They are public. However they are still from Yugoslav times and modernizations are mostly made on base of some letters and dispatches from Dars and Ministry, which must be followed. Of course during years more and more confusion is the result and therefore more and more inconsistency. A new legislation should be made but with completely incompetent Ministry of traffic and Dars motorway company leaderships which don't consider expert opinions to be any worth this is just a dream.

There is also another thing: Slovenia is extremely "zaplankan" nation (don't know how to translate - people care only for their small pocket of land for which they think it is amazingly important), so very unimportant villages of only 200 or 300 people are often on distance signs, for example, on A2 from Bled -> Ljubljana there is a distance sign for Zgoše with 300 people, but no sign for Begunje, which is larger and industrially and touristic much more important place just next door.
Also some other destinations had to be renamed, as for Jezersko -> Spodnje (Lower) Jezersko or Brnik -> Spodnji Brnik although there is also Zgornje (Upper) ... very close and does not have any important meaning for anyone except for some mayors who think they are Kings of their small unimportant Valley (Kralji na Betajnovi).
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Old September 3rd, 2011, 06:51 PM   #3697
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Considering a new law on roads was passed in December, shouldn't they release a new official document on traffic signs? Or will the old one just continue to be valid? It is a perfect opportunity to reform it.

I know it is public in that sense, but is it also easily accessible or do you have to dig around some archives in Ljubljana to get it?
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Old September 3rd, 2011, 06:53 PM   #3698
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small-minded/narrow-minded is probably the closest translation
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Old September 3rd, 2011, 07:05 PM   #3699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kreden View Post
Considering a new law on roads was passed in December, shouldn't they release a new official document on traffic signs? Or will the old one just continue to be valid? It is a perfect opportunity to reform it.

I know it is public in that sense, but is it also easily accessible or do you have to dig around some archives in Ljubljana to get it?
old Rules on traffic signs (Pravilnik o prometni signalizaciji in prometni opremi na javnih cestah) is not valid anymore with the new law, but continues to be used until a new one is adopted.

In theory that's partly why the law was adopted in December, came into force in April and began to be used in July - to have enough time to prepare and adopt new subordinate acts as soon as possible, but it's really too optimistic to expect them soon. For some of them they set a term of one year, but not e.g. for the trafic signs, so it would take probably a few years before we get a new document...
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Old September 3rd, 2011, 07:48 PM   #3700
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I would make every so-called zaplankan "King" study abroad. so he realizes how dumb he is.
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