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Old November 1st, 2011, 02:30 PM   #3921
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what road is that Podsused-Kumrovec?
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Old November 1st, 2011, 03:31 PM   #3922
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darko06 View Post
Is the road from razcep Podtabor to Ljubelj tunnel via Tržič signed as an expressway (Hitra cesta)?
It is signed as an expressway until Tržič, then it is only a good main road (mostly with denivelated intersections).
I presume it was built as such also to show western people first impression how advanced Yugoslav roads are after having done many tight and steep curves on Austrian side from Klagenfurt.

Also interesting, I saw that for Belgrade-Niš motorway Serbia still uses chainage used from BU road.
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Old November 1st, 2011, 03:37 PM   #3923
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I presume it was built as such also to show western people first impression how advanced Yugoslav roads are after having done many tight and steep curves on Austrian side from Klagenfurt.
It worked for me The first time I entered Slovenia was via that road, I was quite impressed with the high standard compared to Austria. It reminded me of what I've seen in the Pyrenees in Spain, Spanish main roads there are better than in France.
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Old November 1st, 2011, 04:02 PM   #3924
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In Slovenia there is no additional speed limit for cut&covers on A2 toward Zagreb near Trebnje. Just there.
How long is your longest cut&cover?
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Old November 1st, 2011, 04:04 PM   #3925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
It worked for me The first time I entered Slovenia was via that road, I was quite impressed with the high standard compared to Austria. It reminded me of what I've seen in the Pyrenees in Spain, Spanish main roads there are better than in France.
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The Loibl / Ljublelj is much better on the Slovenian side than the Austrian side. Narrow and curvy in Austria, wide and smooth in Slovenia!
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Old November 1st, 2011, 04:16 PM   #3926
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How long is your longest cut&cover?
On A2 there is Karteljevo with 290 m (longest with 3+3 lanes and median too) and on A5 Močna with 360 m (longest 2+2).
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Old November 1st, 2011, 04:21 PM   #3927
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On A2 there is Karteljevo with 290 m (longest with 3+3 lanes and median too) and on A5 Močna with 360 m (longest 2+2).
by 3+3 you mean 2x2+2e?
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Old November 1st, 2011, 04:55 PM   #3928
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2+2 with lanes for slow vehicles
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Old November 1st, 2011, 04:59 PM   #3929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad_Hafen View Post
what road is that Podsused-Kumrovec?
Croatian D1 and D205 (Zagreb - Zabok - Kumrovec)
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Old November 1st, 2011, 07:59 PM   #3930
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle
It worked for me The first time I entered Slovenia was via that road, I was quite impressed with the high standard compared to Austria. It reminded me of what I've seen in the Pyrenees in Spain, Spanish main roads there are better than in France.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle
The Loibl / Ljublelj is much better on the Slovenian side than the Austrian side. Narrow and curvy in Austria, wide and smooth in Slovenia!

English Wikipedia, under the article "Loibi Pass", claims that the Loibl tunnel was started to build in 1943, 'by the command of Nazi Gauleiter Friedrich Rainer.' I assume that the Loibl tunnel was part of a projected semi-motorway between Klagenfurt (Celovec) and Ljubljana (Laibach). We all know that after the Anschluss of Austria Hitler expanded the Reichsautobahnen network with Salzburg-Wien axis and Salzburg-Villach-Klagenfurt-Graz axis (part of last axis was the tunnel near Spittal). So, I assume that, after the defeat of Yugoslavia in 1941 and annexation of northern Slovenia into the Reich, the Germans planned a subaxis, from the Reich to the Middle East, and this is today's 10th Corridor. It is known that the German praxis was to build the hardest parts at the beginning. They started to build one tube of Katschbergtunnel, tunnel eastern of Spittal and the Loibltunnel.
The Loibltunnel was finished in 1966, and, as a boy, I was driven through by my father in 1967. I remember that the tunnel was very wide, the lighting at the Austrian side was much brighter than at the Yugoslav side, and at the end of the tunnel one was embarrased how narrow and curvy the road on the Austrian side is, altogether to the Klagenfurt south suburbs. I suppose that the Yugoslav authorities intended that the Austrian authorities will build a least a half-motorway from the tunnel to Klagenfurt, but probably Austrians gave over because of huge costs for such a Schnellstrasse, and in the middle of seventies finally made an agreement with the Yugoslavs: that the European banks will finance the Karawankenautobahn, together with the Karawankentunnel. That is the reason why the old road from Brezje to Rateče was from the middle of seventies signed as Yu 1 (instead of Yu 1a before).
Chris is right: in 1967, the old B&U expw started at the southern portal of the Ljubelj tunnel and ended by Naklo, (the old road from Naklo to Ljubljana was from 1940 and had concrete pavement, however not as wide as the old expw), than started again at Škofljica and ended in New Belgrade (ok, the wide road eastern from Jankomir wasn't an expresway because it lacked divided intersections etc. etc.).

EDIT: I also think that the motorway Villach-Kranjska Gora-Podtabor is shorter than (supposed) motorway Villach-(Klagenfurt-Tržič-Podtabor).

Last edited by darko06; November 1st, 2011 at 08:09 PM.
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Old November 1st, 2011, 08:33 PM   #3931
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however it's too bad Austria never built 'Loiblpass schnellstrasse'. maybe in the future? except for this stretch:
http://maps.google.si/maps?saddr=Loi...sz=16&t=h&z=14

the bridge over river Drava is 2x2. was is also built before, with the tunnel?

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Croatian D1 and D205 (Zagreb - Zabok - Kumrovec)
some photos of that road?
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Old November 1st, 2011, 08:56 PM   #3932
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the bridge over river Drava is 2x2. was is also built before, with the tunnel?
No, it was built much later, I think that in 80ies.
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Old November 1st, 2011, 09:10 PM   #3933
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I haven't seen yet a slovenian sign, where Wien (or any other foreign place) is written in local slovenian name only (like Celovec, Dunaj, etc.)


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Old November 1st, 2011, 10:18 PM   #3934
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darko06
HISTORICAL NOTE: In former federal state, till the middle seventies, B&U expressway started at Ljubelj tunnel. The expressway section from then Podtabor intersection to Brezje, and consequently the old road from Brezje to Ratece (or Potkoren?) via Jesenice and Kranjska gora had Yugoslav designation Road 1a (B&U expw was 1, and, curiously, road from Podsused to Kumrovec, the village where Tito was born, was 1b).
Sure? As far as I remember, road 1 run from Greece through SK, BG, ZG, LJ to Kranjska Gora and Ratece towards Italy. 1a was from Trzic to Ljubelj, and 1b from Podkoren to Korensko Sedlo (Wurzenpass).

I must have an old YU-map somewhere...
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Old November 1st, 2011, 10:29 PM   #3935
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Darko06 is right. Road 1 was going to the Austrian border.

I travelled it for the first time in 1986 and the designation 1 was for the route via Jesenice and Kranjska gora.
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Old November 1st, 2011, 10:29 PM   #3936
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some photos of that road?
nothing special to see. just an ordinary 1+1 road in quite poor condition with some indersections in 2 levels (old fashioned, don't expect some merging lanes like on motorways - if you remember those old multilevel intersections on H1 befor it was upgraded on motorway - it's something like that)
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Old November 1st, 2011, 11:10 PM   #3937
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Ups, I forgot this one.
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Old November 2nd, 2011, 12:01 AM   #3938
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I've also seen signs in Maribor with only "Gradec (A)" (for Graz) or in Gornja Radgona with only "Radgona (A)" (for Bad Radkersburg).
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Old November 2nd, 2011, 01:56 AM   #3939
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Actually, the history of modern roads through Slovenia, where is today Corridor 10 motorway, is much wider, something like that:
First modern roads in former Yugoslavia were built in the end of thirties. (Slovenia was then an administrative unit called Drava banate, in Slovenian "Dravska banovina".) In Slovenia was built modern concrete-paved road from Ljubljana to Bled, on sections from Ljubljana to Naklo (through Kranj) and from Brezje via Radovljica to Bled. (The Bled lake was one of most valuable touristic resorts in first Yugoslavia, even King Alexander and Grand Duke Paul as regent for minor King Peter II posessed their castle at the lake, built by one of famous Slovenian architects of this time, Jože Plečnik.) In Ljubljana suburbs, modern paved road was from centre to Škofljica. (Was there a plan for modern road Ljubljana-Sušak via Kočevje? Because before the IIWW, Rijeka, Istria and Karst, Postojna included, were in Italy.) So, after the WWII second Yugoslav state in 1958 opened the old expw from Jankomir near Zagreb (there was junction to the first part of B&U "expw" from Zagreb to Belgrade) to Škofljica, and in the beginning of the sixties they build missed parts of then old Bled road, from Naklo to Brezje, and the future motorway connection (at least that Yugoslav authorities thought) from Podtabor to Ljubelj tunnel, together with the tunnel (the Ljubelj road, however steep at the Austrian side, was much smoother than the road on (Pod)Koren pass). The reason why the main direction at the then Podtabor intersection was to Brezje instead of Tržič is simple. For Slovenians, the main road was from Ljubljana to Bled and not to Klagenfurt (Celovec). Therefore, I assume, the old expw from Naklo to Brezje posessed hard shoulders, and the old expw from Podtabor to Ljubelj does not. So, in let's say 1966, the B&U expw was finished in Slovenia, except the Ljubljana beltway (instead of it they built famous tunnel under the Ljubljana Old City). In fact, the terrain northeast and southwest of Ljubljana was so mountainous, and south of Ljubljana is a swamp, so called Ljubljansko Barje, that this city tunnel was most economic solution in this time.

Last edited by darko06; November 2nd, 2011 at 03:03 AM.
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Old November 2nd, 2011, 02:15 AM   #3940
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Finishing the B&U expw in 1966 (the Ilirika corridor), Slovenians wanted to modernize the Slovenika corridor from Šentilj to Sežana. They started to build two motorway sections: from Vrhnika to Razdrto and from Hoče (Maribor) to Levec (Celje). Yugoslav federal authorities strongly opposed to these motorways and blocked Slovenians to take than cheap credits from western banks. Because of that, the southwest section was stopped in Postojna, and northeast section was finished as a half-motorway, similar to the Naklo-Brezje part of B&U expw. Popular Slovenian leader Stane Kavčič was throwed away by Tito government (similar as Savka Dabčević Kučar in Croatia or Latinka Perović in Serbia).

EDIT: Vrhnika-Razdrto and Hoče-Levec motorways weren't only planned motorways in former Yugoslavia at the end of sixties. In Croatia authorities wanted to build Zagreb-Rijeka and Zagreb-Split motorways (because of that first built section was from Zagreb to Karlovac as a part of both motorways), in Serbia authorities wanted to build Belgrade-Novi Sad motorway (after the fall of Latinka Perović they finished the first section as an 1+1 road with deleveled intersections, similar as the old Jankomir-Škofljica expw) and in Bosnia and Herzegovina they wanted to build a motorway between Sarajevo and Zenica (finished much later as an "old expw"-like road, which is today upgrading to a modern motorway). For Macedonia and Montenegro I don't have any data (Was the motorway-like road between Tetovo and Gostivar first Macedonian motorway?).

Last edited by darko06; November 2nd, 2011 at 03:00 AM.
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