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Old January 27th, 2012, 11:14 PM   #4101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
I think it was even 60 km/h. But they didn't raise it to 1,000 km/h.
was it? i thought they were just thinking of it, just before they repaved them. or they'd lower the speed limit from 80 to 60 in the case of raining?

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Old January 27th, 2012, 11:25 PM   #4102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geor View Post
This is why I like Slovenian MW. This helps when brakes fail.
Taken at very close to Črni kal viaduct.
AFAIK, this is the only ramp for stopping unstoppable vehicles in ex-Yu. Because there is very steep gradient. Croatian HAC decided to make big U-wave after tunnel Sv. Rok toward Zadar so they didn't have need to build such ramp. And it would be very complicated on that kind of terrain.
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Old January 28th, 2012, 06:24 PM   #4103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
All new tunnels have asphalt now, for safety reasons.
Concrete in almost all motorway tunnels is being rebrushed every few years to renew friction.
In case of fire concrete is much, much, much better material than asphalt and it is not need to explain. As for friction and roughness, look at the table acompaning in this link:
http://physics.info/friction/
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Old January 29th, 2012, 02:52 AM   #4104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x-type View Post
was it? i thought they were just thinking of it, just before they repaved them. or they'd lower the speed limit from 80 to 60 in the case of raining?

1000
After the concrete was found to be too smooth, the speed limit in Trojane tunnels was 60 km/h in rain, otherwise 100 km/h. Once on a rainy day I tried to drive by the rules, but trucks were honking behind me

http://www.dnevnik.si/tiskane_izdaje/dnevnik/272835
http://www.motorevija.si/l3.asp?L1_ID=38&L2_ID=706
-----


Quote:
Originally Posted by geor View Post
Believe or not, this is H4a type on the local road near to MW at Črni kal
Before motorway was constructed in 2004, this was the main road to the coast and overturned trucks were a regular feature in traffic updates. In 1999 new huge steam generators for Krško Nuclear Power Plant were transported from Koper port to Krško, so the turns on this road had to be reconstructed and widened and after that it became much easier for trucks. But for biker it's apparently still dangerous, even when going uphill. Sign says "Dangerous road section":
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Originally Posted by geor View Post
I saw a little strange sign on the local road near Črni kal, it says: Nevaren cestni odsek 5km(supose bumpy for bykers)

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Old January 29th, 2012, 10:08 AM   #4105
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i drove on that road last year and i was actuall surprised because i expected much twistier road
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Old January 30th, 2012, 01:04 PM   #4106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geor View Post
In case of fire concrete is much, much, much better material than asphalt and it is not need to explain. As for friction and roughness, look at the table acompaning in this link:
http://physics.info/friction/
This is only theory.

Concrete pavement in tunnels gets dirt and looses friction properties very soon, and here asphalt is much better. In practice it was shown that there is no significant difference in safety between both pavements it is however in cost and maintenance. Concrete in tunnels is used mostly in Germany, Austria, Slovakia and Croatia. In Slovenia it is not used anymore because it was decided it has more problems than it is worthwhile.
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Old January 30th, 2012, 05:26 PM   #4107
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What is "sheep" in that table above?
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Old January 30th, 2012, 05:37 PM   #4108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
Concrete in tunnels is used mostly in Germany, Austria, Slovakia and Croatia.
huh? i don't know for single one. maybe Sveti Rok, but I'm not sure. whole A2, A6 and A7 definitely use asphalt, and i would bet on A1 too. the only place where concrete is used are toll plazas.
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Old January 30th, 2012, 06:28 PM   #4109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by il brutto View Post
What is "sheep" in that table above?
Some kind of skin materials
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Old January 30th, 2012, 06:40 PM   #4110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
This is only theory.

Concrete pavement in tunnels gets dirt and looses friction properties very soon, and here asphalt is much better. In practice it was shown that there is no significant difference in safety between both pavements it is however in cost and maintenance. Concrete in tunnels is used mostly in Germany, Austria, Slovakia and Croatia. In Slovenia it is not used anymore because it was decided it has more problems than it is worthwhile.
I know the answer. You do not use concrete pavement for the same reasons as we. The first, asphalt lobby is stronger than concrete suppliers and the second, ex Yu countries do not have yet adequate concrete technology. Btw, Croatia do not have concrete paved tunnels, unfortunately, except short stretch at toll plazas.
Old so colled MW "Bratstvo i jedinstvo" was concrete paved and it had been lasting for 40 years. It had no problems with friction as you think for concrete paved carriage.

Last edited by geor; January 30th, 2012 at 06:55 PM.
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Old January 30th, 2012, 07:16 PM   #4111
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I know the answer. You do not use concrete pavement for the same reasons as we.
but Slovenia had concrete pavement in tunnels, and replaced it with asphalt due to poor characteristics!
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Old January 30th, 2012, 08:02 PM   #4112
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but Slovenia had concrete pavement in tunnels, and replaced it with asphalt due to poor characteristics!
They replaced that due to bed technology not to poor concrete characteristics: "Neuradne informacije, ki smo jih pridobili, pravijo, da je izvajalec betoniranja vozišča SCT pod Trojanami uporabljal slabše materiale in da so v Darsu to želeli prikriti pred javnostjo. Izvajalca omenjenega dela bodo poiskali v Avstriji, Nemčiji ali Švici" -cited Slo. news. They do not have concrete technology, as I said before. The same is with us. Concrete pavement is wellcomed in developed country as; Germany, USA, Austria,.....,why if it is not good enough? As for fire resistance of concrete pavement in tunnels, that is another question.

Last edited by geor; January 30th, 2012 at 08:10 PM.
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Old January 30th, 2012, 08:48 PM   #4113
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Italy and France don't use concret neither and they have very developed motorway network.
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Old January 30th, 2012, 11:35 PM   #4114
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Ah sorry, Croatia does not have concrete in tunnels, my mistake.

As it is for concrete, in my opinion it does not have much advantages against asphalt. Therefore it is used only in Germanic countries and countries under influence of German and Austrian engineering. And USA. Elsewhere it is not used and I believe with a reason. Friction, smoothness, better drainage of water, sound reduction etc. are all reasons to use asphalt. German technology is not necessarily better by default.
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Old January 30th, 2012, 11:58 PM   #4115
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In Croatia existed two kinds of modern pavement for roads before the WW2:
1. asphalt, on roads mostly in litoral parts: Sušak-Novi Vinodolski; Zaton-Dubrovnik-Cavtat
2. concrete, on magistral roads, which were called "autopruga"/literally from German "autobahn": Direction Ljubljana: Bregana-Samobor-Zagreb (Črnomerec); Direction Belgrade: Zagreb (Dubrava)-Sesvete-Dugo Selo (these two were produced by Antun Res construction company); Trogir-Kaštela-Solin-Split (this is Stara/Old Kaštelanska today); and in the WWII: Direction Sušak: Zagreb (Remetinec)-Lučko-Stupnik.
The point is, that the aforementioned company posessed recent technology for concrete paving. So, I suppose that immediately after the WW2 communist authorities nationalised this company and took it into the building of "autoput" Belgrade-Zagreb, which was started in the year 1945/46 and finished in 1949. This is one of the reasons why the B&U "expressway" once had concrete instead of asphalt pavement. But, interestingly enough, the "Jadranska magistrala"/Adria coastal road had asphalt pavement from the beginning. And in Istria Italians paved roads with asphalt, not with concrete.

Sorry for the OT.

EDIT: When one is entering Samobor from Bregana/Bobovica exit on Cro A3, there are still parts of concrete pavement from the year 1940. Twenty years ago these parts were in much better shape than the concrete pavement of old Zagreb-Ljubljana "expw" which was produced in the year 1958.

Last edited by darko06; January 31st, 2012 at 12:04 AM. Reason: Improvement
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Old January 31st, 2012, 12:33 AM   #4116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darko06 View Post
EDIT: When one is entering Samobor from Bregana/Bobovica exit on Cro A3, there are still parts of concrete pavement from the year 1940. Twenty years ago these parts were in much better shape than the concrete pavement of old Zagreb-Ljubljana "expw" which was produced in the year 1958.
Because there was much more traffic between Ljubljana and Zagreb than between Bregana/Bobovica and Samobor.
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Old January 31st, 2012, 03:03 AM   #4117
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Slovenia wants to deliver people who go through it a psychedelic and memomrable trip, that is why they use the purple brown asphalt that can be seen on some pics instead of ugly concrete. Joke, but it is good that it is not used, I don't like it, in Austria it is very loud and unconfortable.
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Old February 2nd, 2012, 12:14 AM   #4118
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Today I managed to edit and upload some videos I recorded last September in Austria, Slovenia and Hungary. They are edited to be 3.5x-4.5x faster than the original video. The entire route you can see in this clips is this one (each point on the map is the end of one clip and the beginning of the next one).




No hard shoulder on this motorway. Speed limit 110 km/h.

*There will be music added later after YouTube AudioSwap does it's job.

You can check the rest of the videos on the Driving videos thread.

PS: Slovenian motorways offer a psychedelic™ experience.
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Old February 2nd, 2012, 12:56 AM   #4119
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^first time I see entire A5. quite some part of SLO up there.
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Old February 2nd, 2012, 09:24 AM   #4120
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This was my first drive on Slovenian A5. I was a little disappointed by the lack of hard shoulders and by the speed limit that was just 110 km/h because on the day I recorded this clip I had to drive 800+ km and I wanted to drive a little bit faster.

Anyway, except the hard shoulder problem this is a very nice motorway to drive on.
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