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Old May 16th, 2012, 10:43 PM   #4281
Puležan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Do they really need two parallel expressways (H5 and H6)?
From my point of view, it wouldn't be much of a problem if only H6 was planned, and connected to croatian A9 (route via road 11/future H5 is cca 15 km, while via 111/H6 is cca 23 km), but the plan was set long ago to make an expressway from Kaštel/Dragonja border crossing to Koper.

I don't know if the coastal road 111 could be so congested if all coastal traffic along with the transit one (Istra-Koper) goes on it. I mean, could the future H6 alone be sufficient for both local and transit traffic?
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Old May 16th, 2012, 10:51 PM   #4282
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H6 is definitely needed as it is meant for traffic on the coast which is significant even outside tourist season and it will end in Lucija.

H5 is for transit traffic toward Croatia only. Now you could say it would be better to extend H6 to Croatian border and connect onto their A9 (which would be pretty difficult because of terrain). But traffic data suggest that in tourist season such H6 would be very congested, especially between Koper and Izola. Already now current H6 around Koper reaches 40.000 AADT (in season weekends its about double number). After Croatia joins EU and Schengen, traffic will increase even more, especially transit traffic. Two parallel expressways may be not needed right now, but in 10 or 15 years this will almost certainly change.

EDIT: 2011 traffic data for Slovenia:
http://www.dc.gov.si/fileadmin/dc.go...Stetje2011.xls
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Old May 16th, 2012, 11:01 PM   #4283
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After Croatia joins EU and Schengen, traffic will increase even more, especially transit traffic. Two parallel expressways may be not needed right now, but in 10 or 15 years this will almost certainly change.
True. Today, there's high traffic volume only during the summer, because of many tourists coming to slovenian coast and Istria, but in couple of years, we'll be travelling much more to Koper and Trieste, when there wouldn't be any border controls and customs formalities, so shopping will be easier You can compare your future H5 (its cost/benefit ratio) with our A9 - here the traffic volume rises every year because people gets used to go on A9 even on shorter distances between Pula and more northern cities, so its construction will be payed off pretty easy (but we have ticketing system, which brings money directly).
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Old May 17th, 2012, 12:10 AM   #4284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puležan

True. Today, there's high traffic volume only during the summer, because of many tourists coming to slovenian coast and Istria, but in couple of years, we'll be travelling much more to Koper and Trieste
If Slovenes will introduce cheaper (weekly) vignettes.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 12:12 AM   #4285
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Double post, please delete
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 12:49 AM   #4286
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
If Slovenes will introduce cheaper (weekly) vignettes.
For me the price is great.... if you dont like it rent a boat

That highways through Koper will be bad ass, i cant wait that all this will be finished especially Markovec Tunnel And when the Markovec tunnel will be completely finished and opened for traffic, we will be able to exploit the coast between Koper and Izola for turism .
But must say now when the highway on croatian side is practicaly finished (here i mean Istarski ipsilon) it is great to travel, because when you cross the slovenian/croatian border (and here i mean out of the turist season) it is a feeling that you came to the moon of something, almost no traffic, no that god damn truck convoys, its pure road heaven. We have summer house near Pula so im there very often. And i must say that the price is very acceptable i think its about 4 euros from Slovenian border to Pula.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 01:48 AM   #4287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broccolli View Post
For me the price is great.... if you dont like it rent a boat
...
But must say now when the highway on croatian side is practicaly finished (here i mean Istarski ipsilon) it is great to travel, because when you cross the slovenian/croatian border (and here i mean out of the turist season) it is a feeling that you came to the moon of something, almost no traffic, no that god damn truck convoys, its pure road heaven. We have summer house near Pula so im there very often. And i must say that the price is very acceptable i think its about 4 euros from Slovenian border to Pula.
15 € for the weekly vignette is a little bit too much (for someone who just passes on Koper bypass going to Trieste)

A9 is in full profile from SLO border to Pula (except Mirna bridge and Limska draga viaduct) and it costs 37 kn (cca 5 €), but you can take the Vodnjan-north exit and spare cca 1 € Concerning trucks on that route - there will never be so much trucks because it's not a transit route (Istria is a peninsula with Pula as only large city), so only cars, trailers and buses can be seen there...

But let's get back on topic - what's the possibility of making H5 in half-profile first? It would be cheaper and it would be very useful to avoid the old, curvy road... And when the traffic volume increases, it can easily be doubled
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Old May 17th, 2012, 02:16 AM   #4288
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Originally Posted by Puležan View Post
15 € for the weekly vignette is a little bit too much (for someone who just passes on Koper bypass going to Trieste)
But its weekly not daily, you can go more often to Trieste for 15 euros or you can drive all around Slovenias highways (for a whole week), me for example i pay about 10 euros for both ways (from Border to Pula) and if i want to go lets say three days later again to Pula i must pay again 10 euros, and so on and so on. But if you want to go just and only to Trieste (Italy) for just one day and than the same day home again its better that you use regional (side) roads. For example you can go through Motovun - Buzet - Slovenian/Croatian border -Slovenian side roads towards and through Kozina and then through Krvavi potok - Slovenian/Italian border -through Bazovica/Basovizza and then Trieste
When we want to save some money we go always on regional roads via Buzet and then Motovun or Lupoglav...towards Pula

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puležan View Post
A9 is in full profile from SLO border to Pula (except Mirna bridge and Limska draga viaduct) and it costs 37 kn (cca 5 €), but you can take the Vodnjan-north exit and spare cca 1 €
Yes i do that Vodnjan- north exit

Last edited by Broccolli; May 17th, 2012 at 02:41 AM.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 12:28 PM   #4289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broccolli View Post
For example you can go through Motovun - Buzet - Slovenian/Croatian border -Slovenian side roads towards and through Kozina and then through Krvavi potok - Slovenian/Italian border -through Bazovica/Basovizza and then Trieste
It's faster, much shorter and easier to use old state road D21 (Pula-Buje-Kaštel), then G11 (Dragonja-Koper) and 741 through Škofije
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Old May 17th, 2012, 01:45 PM   #4290
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Originally Posted by Puležan View Post
It's faster, much shorter and easier to use old state road D21 (Pula-Buje-Kaštel), then G11 (Dragonja-Koper) and 741 through Škofije
Yes Puležan i agree with you, but that road is an option out of the tourist season, because during the tourist season, is crazy traffic there, especially on Plovanija/Dragonja Border and on Istarski Ipsilon toll stations. So if you go through Buzet towards Pula or in your case from Pula towards Buzet (during tourist season) is much faster and easy going without traffic jams on Border and almost without traffic, and also for me is this very picturesque road especially if you go through Motovun, and Višnjan...

Sorry for a little bit offtopic
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Old May 17th, 2012, 04:23 PM   #4291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puležan View Post
But let's get back on topic - what's the possibility of making H5 in half-profile first? It would be cheaper and it would be very useful to avoid the old, curvy road... And when the traffic volume increases, it can easily be doubled
Theoretically that would be possible on the second (easier and cheaper) half of H5 before Dragonja. Part south of Koper and under Šmarje hill must be done with 4 lanes because of future interchange with A1 (which will probably be extended and expanded to 6 lanes until today's H5-A1 merge at Dekani). After that there is junction for Koper and right after that 2 km long tunnel, which will have to have two tubes right from the beginning because of safety demands.
4 lanes are actually necessary until junction Korte/Padna which leaves only 4 km to be built with two lanes only. Not much would be saved neither in time nor cost.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 06:57 PM   #4292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puležan View Post
15 € for the weekly vignette is a little bit too much (for someone who just passes on Koper bypass going to Trieste)
so this video is very popular even in italy
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Old May 18th, 2012, 12:38 AM   #4293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
H6 is definitely needed as it is meant for traffic on the coast which is significant even outside tourist season and it will end in Lucija.

H5 is for transit traffic toward Croatia only. Now you could say it would be better to extend H6 to Croatian border and connect onto their A9 (which would be pretty difficult because of terrain). But traffic data suggest that in tourist season such H6 would be very congested, especially between Koper and Izola. Already now current H6 around Koper reaches 40.000 AADT (in season weekends its about double number). After Croatia joins EU and Schengen, traffic will increase even more, especially transit traffic. Two parallel expressways may be not needed right now, but in 10 or 15 years this will almost certainly change.

EDIT: 2011 traffic data for Slovenia:
http://www.dc.gov.si/fileadmin/dc.go...Stetje2011.xls
Traffic on H5 between Koper and Bertoki has dropped from 52,505 AADT in 2009 to just 38,632 AADT in 2011. Looks like because you don't have to use it any more to get from A1 and Italy to the port and eastern Koper, and from Koper to Ankaran.
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Old May 18th, 2012, 01:13 AM   #4294
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Crni Kal viaduct (A1)

Direction Koper (1061 m)






Direction Ljubljana (1058 m)








View from road 208


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Old May 18th, 2012, 01:14 AM   #4295
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View from Crni Kal






View from road 409




View from Socerb castle


View from Castello di San Giusto in Trieste


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Old May 18th, 2012, 01:57 AM   #4296
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Any view of Črni Kal from Mars? Wow, you really photographed it from everywhere.
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Old May 18th, 2012, 05:11 AM   #4297
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well done
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Old May 28th, 2012, 02:22 PM   #4298
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H3 - reconstruction of section Koseze-Celovška, 27.5.2012
It is the oldest section of Ljubljana northern bypass (opened in 1981) and needs complete overhauls (no widening to 2x3 for now). Works started today, I just want to show a bad example of traffic management. Works will take 3 months. This section has around 60.000 AADT.

1 - trucks heavier than 7,5 t have forbidden access to H3. This is only signage that shows that, no fixed ones.


2 - still bearable


3 - a confusion of signage


4 - because this section has heavy traffic and slow traffic almost every workday I would assume better signage to be implemented.


5 - a confusion of signage no. 2


6 - there is the end of works.

[/QUOTE]
I would assume, that in Germany, Italy, Netherlands, France etc. they would demand at least removal of old white lines.
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Old May 28th, 2012, 03:50 PM   #4299
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not in Romania tough . You got some outstanding roads in Slovenia some of them better than most, in the countries you just mentioned.
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Old May 28th, 2012, 03:51 PM   #4300
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In The Netherlands we keep the old white lines during construction. Same goes for Germany I belief. You just focus on the yellow lines, it's not that hard or unsafe imho.
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