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Old July 18th, 2013, 01:54 PM   #4741
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Old July 18th, 2013, 02:15 PM   #4742
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
Truck toll prices should increase too.
They are already high enough for a size this country.
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Old July 18th, 2013, 03:06 PM   #4743
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What has a country size to do with truck tolls? They are calculated per km of motorway and are quite low comparing to Austrian tolls.
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Old July 18th, 2013, 03:14 PM   #4744
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They are already pushing it with the current vinjeta. Many tourist feel the tolls in Slovenia as a ripoff. You need to pay 2 x € 15 for 2 x 40 kilometers from the Austrian border to Ptuj, or for 2 x 8 km from the Italian border to Koper if you have a standard 2- or 3-week vacation in Croatia.
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Old July 18th, 2013, 03:19 PM   #4745
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No one forces you to use a motorway or expressway for those 5 or 40 km. That's just the stupidity of the people. And stupidity ought to be punished!
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Old July 18th, 2013, 03:44 PM   #4746
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That's no argument. The function of a motorway is to travel safely and quickly. With that kind of argument you can make a € 1000 toll to drive through Germany or France look reasonable. People are willing to pay for services like a motorway if it's value for money. The Slovenian vignette doesn't offer that for a lot of tourists.

The current setup with vignettes is a disadvantage for tourists on purpose.
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Old July 18th, 2013, 03:55 PM   #4747
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Correct and I don'Ät like the vignette in Slovenia. The old toll system was much better. But as I said before, no one is forced to pay it and you can choose other roads. And especially that 5 km don't really improve road safety
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Old July 18th, 2013, 04:07 PM   #4748
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No vignette system is fair for everyone. None forces you to pay for motorways and use them.

Do you propose to drop price for weekly vignette to let say 7 EUR and rise yearly vignette price to 200 €? Tourist would say yes, I would say NO. What prices do you propose?
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Old July 18th, 2013, 04:31 PM   #4749
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The price is generally too high. Look at Switzerland: Just a yearly vignette and it cost "only" 33 Euro. And now compare that to Slowenia
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Old July 18th, 2013, 04:44 PM   #4750
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What is an appropriate price to easily repay about 3 billion of loans + financing?
At current toll prices Dars barely manages to pay for maintenance and reconstructions and repay yearly interests (interests for 2013 are about 200 million) and in 2014 interests will rise to 450 million (in 2015 they will drop to about 300 million and later even more)
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Old July 18th, 2013, 04:55 PM   #4751
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Who says that something is easy? Again look at Switzerland and their motorway network and their tunnels. The comparison to Slovenia doesn't look very good for Slovenia... Perhaps too much money was spend or the financing was bad. Anyhow, the costs for the Slovenian vignettes are far too high.
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Old July 18th, 2013, 05:19 PM   #4752
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Slovenia is a small country. Many 1-week vignettes are used by people who pass just once through the country in that period. Vignettes are never completely fair by nature. Inhabitants are better off than incidental non-inhabitants, who generally pay much more if you convert the price of the vignette to annual mileage. That is not to say that vignettes are a bad system. However, in Slovenia's case it's not value for money, especially for tourists. People who plan to drive hundreds or thousands of kilometers on Slovenian motorways will likely buy a monthly or annual vignette because of their extended stay. Except for road geeks, almost nobody without an annual vignette will drive 1.000 kilometers on Slovenian motorways in a week.

In my opinion, truck traffic should pay the bulk of the tolls. They cause by far the most wear and tear to the pavement, and are largely responsible for the overall cost of bridges and viaducts due to their total weight.
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Old July 18th, 2013, 06:56 PM   #4753
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At the government meeting toll price increase was postponed to some later date (rumors are that discussion was pretty lively) so no vignette price increase for now.

However Dars company has issued a press release just hours ago about planned toll increase (Google translate link) where they also stated that tolls colected with vignettes and truck/bus tolls are in ratio 47:53 and they want to change that considerably. So they proposed to government considerable increase of truck tolls for Euro 0 - Euro 3 vehicles, which "have 77 % share among all tolled trucks, from which 83 % are foreign". Also they want to cancel various discounts for truckers, like lower price in the night and discounts for regular users, which are "not present in neighboring countries" and can lead to "that truck tolls in Austria are up to 100% higher".
Government rejected that proposal. Nothing unusual with that government which just raises taxes for everyone day by day.
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Old July 18th, 2013, 07:11 PM   #4754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
Euro 0 - Euro 3 vehicles, which "have 77 % share among all tolled trucks, from which 83 % are foreign".
Interesting, because that is quite a high share, considering Euro 3 was introduced almost 15 years ago. Already in 2008 the Austrian truck fleet was 75% euro 3 or better. In 2011, 70% of the trucks in Austria had Euro 4 or better.
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Old July 18th, 2013, 10:28 PM   #4755
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Few days ago Christine Lagarde said that all countries of Eastern Europe which are EU members have currently growing GDP, except of Slovenia and Croatia. Consequently Slovenia will rise prices of the vignette, while Croatia will rise special tax on fuel (so called trošarina). A nice way to peel off foreign tourists when there is the peak of the touristic season.
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Old July 18th, 2013, 11:05 PM   #4756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
In 2011, 70% of the trucks in Austria had Euro 4 or better.
That's logical, because they pay much higher toll than in Slovenia, so most transit in direction Italy - East Europe goes through Slovenia over A3 (or H4)-A1-A5. Most people think, they are seeing almost new trucks on A1 (between 4000-6000 per day), but actually most are 10, 15 or even 20 years old. Design of the trucks doesn't change so much with time.

If tolls will increase considerably for =< EURO III then I expect truck transit to move to A2 and to Croatia, because they are in EU now.
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Old July 19th, 2013, 12:12 AM   #4757
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
That's logical, because they pay much higher toll than in Slovenia, so most transit in direction Italy - East Europe goes through Slovenia over A3 (or H4)-A1-A5. Most people think, they are seeing almost new trucks on A1 (between 4000-6000 per day), but actually most are 10, 15 or even 20 years old. Design of the trucks doesn't change so much with time.

If tolls will increase considerably for =< EURO III then I expect truck transit to move to A2 and to Croatia, because they are in EU now.
A2 definitely not.
Let's watch route Villesse - Letenye:

route Fernetti - Ljubljana - Maribor - Lendava - Letenye
tolls 66,80€, 361 km

route Fernetti - Ljubljana - Zagreb - Letenye
tolls 67,60€, 375 km

route Basovizza - Kozina - Rijeka - Zagreb - Letenye
tolls 65,20€, 387 km

route Fernetti - Ljubljana - Zagreb - Maribor - Letenye (makes no sense to me)
tolls 102,50€, 457 km

if Slovenia would significantly rise the tolls, i guess that route via Rjieka would be the most popular.

edit: i thought you were talking about Croatian A2. it would be stupid now to erase my post.
but conclusion is that already now the route via Zagreb costs almost the same as route via Maribor.
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Old July 19th, 2013, 12:33 AM   #4758
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For now there is no sense, however EE truckers watch every euro when driving.
However be aware that now they don't need to go through Letenye further to east anymore. They can take Bjelovar-Virovitica route, which could be the shortest, the fastest and the cheapest.
Also I think that through Rijeka it wouldn't be popular because of large hills which cost fuel and brakes.
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Old July 19th, 2013, 01:03 AM   #4759
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i am now calculating route Nădlac - Ljubljana.

route via Pécs - Barcs
609 km, tolls 77€ (the cheapest with no discussion)

route via Pécs - Tornyiszentmiklos
631 km, tolls 116€

route via Udvar - Osijek - Zagreb
688 km, tolls 122€

considering the ratio of motorway covered route, even this last one could be considered
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Old July 19th, 2013, 08:44 PM   #4760
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Guys

That what you get with a socialist government. Write to them, not here on the forum.
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