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Old August 10th, 2014, 12:52 PM   #5261
RipleyLV
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Quote:
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We don't have money for basic maintenance of roads, but we have it for this luxurious second tube with 8,500 AADT? But that's when rich guys in Brussels take decisions and expect member states to finance them. I know we could just build an escape tube, but even that's too expensive right now IMO.
Same here, we barely have funding for maintenance, but the EU tells us that we must repave some segments of Via Baltica, even though it had capital reconstruction 7 years ago and still was in good shape. In this matter, if it's an important EU arterial road, then I like how they don't give a **** about that 14 km bad shape segment before the Estonian border. But ok, it's their money anyway, so our government is like a puppet to them.
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Old August 10th, 2014, 04:01 PM   #5262
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The EU doesn't force anybody to use their financial aid and they also don't decide which projects you should or shouldn't build. What is true, however, is that the EU only finances road investments not maintenance. The latter is up for the member state to take care of.
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Old August 10th, 2014, 04:15 PM   #5263
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The EU doesn't force anybody to use their financial aid
I don't think this second tube will be co-financed by the EU, at least I'm not aware of it. I also wonder, if politicians in Ljubljana make any decisions, which then have to by financed by Slovenian municipalities. Imagine that this second tube would have to be financed by the municipalities of Kranjska Gora and Jesenice where the tunnel is located.

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Old August 10th, 2014, 05:46 PM   #5264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
We don't have money for basic maintenance of roads, but we have it for this luxurious second tube with 8,500 AADT? But that's when rich guys in Brussels take decisions and expect member states to finance them. I know we could just build an escape tube, but even that's too expensive right now IMO.
by that logic we shouldn't have some other motorways either. and 2 tube tunnel should be a standard from the begining, not because eu demands it, but 1 tube tunnel is bad for safety, traffic flow, quality of travalling,... it's like an unfinished motorway.
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Old August 10th, 2014, 06:20 PM   #5265
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What is true, however, is that the EU only finances road investments not maintenance. The latter is up for the member state to take care of.
They do give funding for maintenance, only if the road construction was previously financed by the EU. They require the member state to maintain "their" roads, so that they serve as long as possible in good condition.

Sorry for OT
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Old August 10th, 2014, 06:34 PM   #5266
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by that logic we shouldn't have some other motorways either. and 2 tube tunnel should be a standard from the begining, not because eu demands it, but 1 tube tunnel is bad for safety, traffic flow, quality of travalling,... it's like an unfinished motorway.
Yes, all tunnels should have two tubes. The tunnel's been safe for 23 years, while traffic flow and quality of travelling are the same, except for a few days in summer. But if you have money, bring it on.
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Old August 10th, 2014, 06:39 PM   #5267
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It's part of a major motorway connection in Europe, therefor it should have two tubes like the tunnels in Austria. I also think it should be significantly EU-funded. EU road funding is too focused on eastern Europe. Often EU funding in western Europe is limited to planning process and design cost. This approach gives way to the perception that the EU is merely an institute to move funding from western to eastern Europe. The net payers should not be forgotten.
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Old August 10th, 2014, 06:53 PM   #5268
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EU funds are very important especially for cross-border motorways, since single countries have little interest in building them.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old August 10th, 2014, 06:54 PM   #5269
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Yes, all tunnels should have two tubes. The tunnel's been safe for 23 years, while traffic flow and quality of travelling are the same, except for a few days in summer. But if you have money, bring it on.
yeah, especialy last years when traffic is one direction only with 30 min waiting time and nighttime closures.
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Old August 10th, 2014, 07:15 PM   #5270
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Ok, maybe we'll have found some money by 2019.
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Old August 11th, 2014, 12:35 AM   #5271
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Slovenia would pay a half of price for the tunnel,because the tunnel is in Austria too.
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Old August 11th, 2014, 12:39 AM   #5272
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Slovenia would pay a half of price for the tunnel,because the tunnel is in Austria too.
Even less then half of the price, because austrian side of the tunnel is longer
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Old August 11th, 2014, 01:05 PM   #5273
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This tunnel will fit well in DARS (motorway operator) budget. With 300M € DARS annual total income this should be peace of cake. And I agree, single tube tunnels are dangerous - ticking time bombs. Imagine what happens if tunnel is forced to close for few months because of an accident, imagine all the damage for the economy... There are no good alternatives to this route so bring that machinery and start to bore!
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Last edited by Karaya; August 11th, 2014 at 05:05 PM.
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Old August 11th, 2014, 03:41 PM   #5274
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Begining of Karavanke tunnel construction back in 1986.

Link: http://euscreen.eu/play.jsp?id=EUS_6...47F20737FD3DD7
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Old August 11th, 2014, 09:59 PM   #5275
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Even less then half of the price, because austrian side of the tunnel is longer
It's 55:45, yes.
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Old August 11th, 2014, 10:47 PM   #5276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broccolli View Post
Begining of Karavanke tunnel construction back in 1986.

Link: http://euscreen.eu/play.jsp?id=EUS_6...47F20737FD3DD7
It opened in June 1991 but was closed few days after because the war in Yugoslavia broke up.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old August 11th, 2014, 11:02 PM   #5277
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Existing tube is already badly damaged on Slovenian part because of geology and cost savings at construction. Serious repair would demand very long complete closures, even now every year we have few months of half closures.
With new second traffic tube repairs to existing tube can be done efficiently without major traffic disruption.
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Old August 11th, 2014, 11:36 PM   #5278
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I suppose we won't see much renovation of the old tube for a while, once the new one is finished due to budget constraints on both sides.
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Old August 12th, 2014, 12:11 AM   #5279
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I suppose we won't see much renovation of the old tube for a while, once the new one is finished due to budget constraints on both sides.
Not really. The plan is that the old tube will be closed for one year after the second tube will be finished
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Old August 12th, 2014, 12:33 AM   #5280
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The plan is that there is no concrete plan to this moment with regards of what to do with the old tube (ASFINAG favours it to remain a emergency exit). All you find in the 2013-2018 framework is the construction of the second tube but nothing else.
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