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Old August 12th, 2014, 12:57 AM   #5281
Eulanthe
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Quote:
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The plan is that there is no concrete plan to this moment with regards of what to do with the old tube (ASFINAG favours it to remain a emergency exit). All you find in the 2013-2018 framework is the construction of the second tube but nothing else.
How on earth did the Karawanke tunnel get in such a bad state after not more than 20 years?

Is it also a problem on the Austrian side?

Keeping the old tube as an emergency tunnel must be the bare minimum, in my opinion. Even if there's no money to keep it up to a wonderful standard, it shouldn't cost that much to build frequent exits to the emergency tunnel with airlocks and fire doors.
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Old August 12th, 2014, 01:00 AM   #5282
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Geology is problematic on our (slovenia) side AFAIK. I don't mind if second tube is closed most of the time (and save some money) but I guess you need an additional escape tube if you have both tubes open for traffic?
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Old August 12th, 2014, 01:30 AM   #5283
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Geology is problematic on our (slovenia) side AFAIK. I don't mind if second tube is closed most of the time (and save some money) but I guess you need an additional escape tube if you have both tubes open for traffic?
No, you don't need additional escape tube if you have both tubes open for traffic
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Old August 12th, 2014, 02:03 AM   #5284
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Geology is problematic on our (slovenia) side AFAIK. I don't mind if second tube is closed most of the time (and save some money) but I guess you need an additional escape tube if you have both tubes open for traffic?
No need - in the event of an emergency, the red lights should go on at the entry to the second tube, and travellers from the first tube would be able to escape reasonably safely into the second tube.

The problem with tunnels in general is that a second emergency tube isn't foolproof - there were what, 12 deaths at St Gotthard despite the presence of a second emergency tunnel.

The best solution would be to have two unidirectional tunnels open at all times, But if the Austrians and Slovenians don't see the demand for it, then keeping the old tube as a summer only/emergency tunnel makes sense.

I do think all tunnels over 5km should have an emergency fire engine stationed at the halfway point of the tunnel. Mont Blanc has such a thing now, and I think it makes perfect sense.
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Old August 12th, 2014, 11:04 AM   #5285
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Is that right that one part of the A4 to the Croatian border will be in construction in December?
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Old August 12th, 2014, 09:09 PM   #5286
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Is that right that one part of the A4 to the Croatian border will be in construction in December?
Allegedly.

But seeing as the Slovenian highway authority doesn't have money to maintain the roads, I think it's highly likely that nothing will start then.

More to the point, the A4 isn't desperately needed. Traffic (apart from on summer Saturdays) doesn't justify anything more than a single carriageway motorway as it stands.
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Old August 12th, 2014, 11:16 PM   #5287
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Allegedly.

But seeing as the Slovenian highway authority doesn't have money to maintain the roads, I think it's highly likely that nothing will start then.

More to the point, the A4 isn't desperately needed. Traffic (apart from on summer Saturdays) doesn't justify anything more than a single carriageway motorway as it stands.
The Directorate for state roads is broke. However Dars, the motorway company, is doing OK.
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Old August 13th, 2014, 01:32 AM   #5288
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The Directorate for state roads is broke. However Dars, the motorway company, is doing OK.
Ahh, I thought it was DARS that was in trouble.

Won't they just take money from DARS, though?
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Old August 13th, 2014, 02:05 AM   #5289
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It's very possible. Then DARS projects will be in trouble. BTW, Directorate for state roads is broke because they took their money and gave it to railroad infrastructure.
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Old August 13th, 2014, 02:02 PM   #5290
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Ahh, I thought it was DARS that was in trouble.

Won't they just take money from DARS, though?
Dars is a company and while it is owned by the state, it's not part of the public sector or funded by the state budget, so they can't just take money from Dars and give it to a government department.
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Old August 13th, 2014, 03:28 PM   #5291
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Ahh, I thought it was DARS that was in trouble.

Won't they just take money from DARS, though?
State is already extracting around 100% of profit from state companies, thus removing their potential for growth. Luckly for DARS, there is almost no profit.

Some of them, even had liquidity problems because of this.
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Old August 13th, 2014, 04:20 PM   #5292
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Actually DARS had 327M € of total income and 47M € net profit in year 2013 and yes, the government wants that money.

Page 17, http://www.dars.si/Dokumenti/1_letna...v6_slo_web.pdf
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Old August 13th, 2014, 04:45 PM   #5293
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I can't find anywhere, so if you guys can tell me when A3 was completed?
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Old August 13th, 2014, 04:59 PM   #5294
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In 1997.

http://www.dars.si/Dokumenti/O_avtoc...etici_107.aspx
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Old August 20th, 2014, 07:29 PM   #5295
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help!
i've gone into discussion about tolled motorways in SLO with some guy at another forum. doubtful sections are:

A4 around b/c Gruškovje (yes, those few hunderds of metres)
A4 from G9 to exit Draženci (again few hunderds of metres)
roundabout Pesnica

tolled or not? only reliable information please.

also, is the sign for vignette the only real indicator of tolled road? no sign - no toll? or something else?
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Old August 20th, 2014, 09:55 PM   #5296
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help!
i've gone into discussion about tolled motorways in SLO with some guy at another forum. doubtful sections are:

A4 around b/c Gruškovje (yes, those few hunderds of metres)
A4 from G9 to exit Draženci (again few hunderds of metres)
roundabout Pesnica

tolled or not? only reliable information please.

also, is the sign for vignette the only real indicator of tolled road? no sign - no toll? or something else?
Both stretches don't have sign for vignette and they are free to drive - few times stated by slovenian DARS and newspapers and croatian newspapers (this is the first sign for obligatory vignette, only after Ptuj-vzhod exit: streetview). Same goes for roundabout under A1 on A1/H2 junction, although several years ago it was tolled (even there are non DARS roads that join the roundabout)
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Old August 20th, 2014, 11:35 PM   #5297
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that's what i said too.
can somebody else confirm? Slovenians?
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Old August 20th, 2014, 11:38 PM   #5298
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The stretches are free.An uncle who lives near Ptuj told me that.
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Old August 21st, 2014, 12:12 AM   #5299
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Pesnica is de facto without toll, de jure with toll

other 2 examples are "in my opinion" without toll
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Old August 21st, 2014, 01:28 PM   #5300
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help!
i've gone into discussion about tolled motorways in SLO with some guy at another forum. doubtful sections are:

A4 around b/c Gruškovje (yes, those few hunderds of metres)
A4 from G9 to exit Draženci (again few hunderds of metres)
roundabout Pesnica

tolled or not? only reliable information please.

also, is the sign for vignette the only real indicator of tolled road? no sign - no toll? or something else?
The area around Ptuj is definitely without vignette. It's not marked as A4 in any way (entering from the Ptuj bypass, you see the A4 is crossed out), and the sign you posted isn't there. Heading north on the G9, the A4 doesn't start until the Drazenci.

What A4 around Gruskovje? Do you mean on entry from the Ptuj bypass?

Pesnica - I wouldn't trust DARS regardless of what they say in public. The facts on the ground are clear - you pass a sign indicating vignettes required. But to make it slightly more complicated, at the start of the H2, there's another sign indicating it, as well on entry to the A1.

Until the signs are removed from the non-motorway/expressway approach roads to the roundabouts, I'd consider it to be de jure under vignette rules. Given the reports of DARS being ruthless, I would be very, very reluctant to risk it. But from a practical point of view, they have nowhere there to conduct the controls - so you'd probably get away with it.

As for the sign - my understanding is that the sign confirms entry to a tolled road. There must be a legal basis for it somewhere...
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