daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old March 23rd, 2008, 03:36 PM   #621
Timon91
Error
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: just outside Germany
Posts: 5,783
Likes (Received): 46

Yes, I guess that dutch tourists are more eager to follow the A2, A76, followed by the German A4, A61, A1 into Luxembourg, and then on to France.
__________________
My Flickr account.
Some of my photoseries: Northern Ireland, Prague, Boston, Alaska part 1, 2, 3, Smoggy Moscow, Warsaw, Wrocław, Kiev, Donetsk, Odessa and Chişinău.
Timon91 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old March 23rd, 2008, 04:46 PM   #622
x-type
con los terroristas
 
x-type's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bjelovar [HR]
Posts: 13,471
Likes (Received): 3438

old road from Šentilj to Pesnica is going to become really congested, probably also dangerous
x-type no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2008, 05:54 PM   #623
Rijeka
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 344
Likes (Received): 0

I've never taken that one. Would it be possible to go through Maribor to Ptuj (from Sentilj) without paying a toll? I suppose we'll have to drive through the city center or pay 35 euros.
Rijeka no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2008, 06:29 PM   #624
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauernautobahn View Post
I think when I'm going to Croatia this Summer I'll not go via Ljubljana but via Graz, take the last exit before the Border and go to Ptuj via national roads as there is only some 10 kms of motorway which would be as much as (!) €3,50 per km!!! And there isn't even a tunnel or along viaduct or something.
Oh, your scenario is a heaven, 10 km is not so much after all (especially taking into account traffic jam at the Pesnica toll station in summers and holidays). Here is the real picture: the expressway through Maribor will also require vignette, which means you'll have to drive through the city center, even in rush hours.

An even worse example is transiting between Trieste and Pula. There's this 7-km H5 expressway between the Italian border and Koper. Apart from that there's no major parallel road, only local roads with bad signage, I suppose. Even I'd have to look at some good map to find my way, if I didn't wanna make a detour over Buzet or sth.

Sth is clear: a vignette would have to be extremely cheap to satisfy people in transit between Graz and Zagreb or Trieste and Pula, which is of course out of question. That's why I suggest exempting these particular sections, or at least the mentioned expressways. After all, no one in Slovenia wants to look at transit flowing through the middle of Maribor or getting lost around Koper. I bet there will also be many "stowaways". But all these measures would destroy the government's plans about ripping off transit.


On a side note, I think the Austrian A11 and A10 motorways, as well as the short section of the A1 between the A10 and German border by Salzburg shouldn't require vignette either, they already rip you off with three tunnels.
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2008, 07:18 PM   #625
keber
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 9,878
Likes (Received): 1364

Yes, and famous Bregenz section, and Brenner Autobahn too.

Still, you must know, that this is election-only decision. Good for Slovenians (which vote) and bad for tourists (which of course don't vote).
keber no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2008, 07:25 PM   #626
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
Yes, and famous Bregenz section, and Brenner Autobahn too.
The Pfändertunnel isn't charged anyway, although it could be, so I don't consider this problematic; as for Brenner, well...
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2008, 07:53 PM   #627
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,612
Likes (Received): 19400

Maybe there is some EU law which requires transit-type of vignettes for foreigners?
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2008, 09:59 PM   #628
Rijeka
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 344
Likes (Received): 0

I don't know, I've never heard of it. Verso, nobody says toll is a problem, the problem is price, so there should be a weekly sticker for let's say 7-8 euros, like in Austria... It would still be too expensive for the Sentilj-Ptuj section, but I suppose people would pay it. If it stays like this it would really look like a rip-off.
Rijeka no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2008, 10:43 PM   #629
Tauernautobahn
Registered User
 
Tauernautobahn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Salzburg
Posts: 96
Likes (Received): 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
Yes, and famous Bregenz section, and Brenner Autobahn too.
Actually the Brennerautobahn between the toll station Schönberg and the "Brenner/Brennero (Italian Border) doesn't require a toll sticker.

And for the transit relation Munich-Bregenz-Zürich/San Bernardino they -finally, after years of transit traffic through Bregenz - invented a "Korridorvignette" for 2€.
I think after some years of "transit-hell" through villages and Towns along the routes Graz-Maribor-Zagreb and Trieste-Koper-Pula they will have to invent such a thing, too.
Tauernautobahn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2008, 10:56 PM   #630
Tauernautobahn
Registered User
 
Tauernautobahn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Salzburg
Posts: 96
Likes (Received): 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Oh, your scenario is a heaven, 10 km is not so much after all (especially taking into account traffic jam at the Pesnica toll station in summers and holidays). Here is the real picture: the expressway through Maribor will also require vignette, which means you'll have to drive through the city center, even in rush hours.
OK, you're right, I think it'll be better to find som route via Bad Radkersburg/Gornja Radgona-Murska Sobota-Ormoz-Varazdin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
An even worse example is transiting between Trieste and Pula. There's this 7-km H5 expressway between the Italian border and Koper. Apart from that there's no major parallel road, only local roads with bad signage, I suppose. Even I'd have to look at some good map to find my way, if I didn't wanna make a detour over Buzet or sth.
I know what you mean, my father also wants to bypass that somehow but doesn't find any possibility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Sth is clear: a vignette would have to be extremely cheap to satisfy people in transit between Graz and Zagreb or Trieste and Pula, which is of course out of question. That's why I suggest exempting these particular sections, or at least the mentioned expressways. After all, no one in Slovenia wants to look at transit flowing through the middle of Maribor or getting lost around Koper. I bet there will also be many "stowaways".
That's why I think they'll have to find a solution for the listed routes, sth like a "Corridor toll sticker". I only fear that it will last some years until they invent it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
But all these measures would destroy the government's plans about ripping off transit.
In this case, be aware of the EU , our politicians tried that for years, and they still try but don't have any success.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
On a side note, I think the Austrian A11 and A10 motorways, as well as the short section of the A1 between the A10 and German border by Salzburg shouldn't require vignette either, they already rip you off with three tunnels.
You're absolutely right. I think a country has to decide either to have a Toll sticker system OR a toll-booth system and not both.
Tauernautobahn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2008, 11:05 PM   #631
edolen1
Monkey business
 
edolen1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Nova Gorica
Posts: 3,542
Likes (Received): 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauernautobahn View Post
That's why I think they'll have to find a solution for the listed routes, sth like a "Corridor toll sticker". I only fear that it will last some years until they invent it.
That won't work, this is a temporary system, we're going to have satellite tolling by 2011 (or was it 2012?) for cars as well.. But that might be even worse, since you're going to have to buy a (probably pretty expensive) receiver to drive on our motorways..
edolen1 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2008, 11:09 PM   #632
Tauernautobahn
Registered User
 
Tauernautobahn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Salzburg
Posts: 96
Likes (Received): 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by edolen1 View Post
That won't work, this is a temporary system, we're going to have satellite tolling by 2011 (or was it 2012?) for cars as well.. But that might be even worse, since you're going to have to buy a (probably pretty expensive) receiver to drive on our motorways..
At least for me (I drive in Solvenia at lest 4 times a year) that is better because once you've bought such a receiver you can use it multiple times and you only pay per driven kilometers.

But if the toll sticker system is only temporary then wyh don't they just leave it out and still use the current system until the satellite system is introduced?
Tauernautobahn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2008, 11:29 PM   #633
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

^ B/c of elections. Most Slovenians welcome vignette, if it's just 55 EUR a year.
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2008, 11:39 PM   #634
edolen1
Monkey business
 
edolen1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Nova Gorica
Posts: 3,542
Likes (Received): 6

I think it's a European directive thing though, so the receiver is probably going to be compatible with other countries' receivers.. I dunno when other countries plan to introduce it tho, if at all..
edolen1 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2008, 11:56 PM   #635
Tauernautobahn
Registered User
 
Tauernautobahn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Salzburg
Posts: 96
Likes (Received): 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
^ B/c of elections. Most Slovenians welcome vignette, if it's just 55 EUR a year.
OK, i can understad that because it surely gets cheaper for them.
I didn't think of the circumstance that you have a toll for all motorways so that's noting special if there is no resistance of the population.
Tauernautobahn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2008, 12:01 AM   #636
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

In the Ljubljana area there are as much as 75 km of motorways free of charge though (the bypasses and branches in all directions until the first toll).
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2008, 12:42 AM   #637
Rijeka
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 344
Likes (Received): 0

I still think there will be many people who'll try to escape the toll. I mean, I live in the NL and I go to Croatia once a year (by car). If I go from Karavanke or from Graz to Rijeka I could pay 35 E, but if I go from Graz to Zagreb, than it seems a lot. I'm sure Slovenians wouldn't be happy to pay 35 E just to go to Graz or Klagenfurt. So ok, we'll see, but if Slovenia really introduces this system, it definitely won't make a nice impression on transit tourists
Rijeka no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2008, 01:08 AM   #638
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,612
Likes (Received): 19400

Quote:
Originally Posted by edolen1 View Post
I think it's a European directive thing though, so the receiver is probably going to be compatible with other countries' receivers.. I dunno when other countries plan to introduce it tho, if at all..
The Netherlands are also discussion setting up at GPS based tolling system. The major problem are the extraordinary expensive operation costs. It is said to be as expensive as a few billion euro's per year.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2008, 01:11 AM   #639
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rijeka View Post
I still think there will be many people who'll try to escape the toll. I mean, I live in the NL and I go to Croatia once a year (by car). If I go from Karavanke or from Graz to Rijeka I could pay 35 E, but if I go from Graz to Zagreb, than it seems a lot. I'm sure Slovenians wouldn't be happy to pay 35 E just to go to Graz or Klagenfurt. So ok, we'll see, but if Slovenia really introduces this system, it definitely won't make a nice impression on transit tourists
Welcome to Slovenia!
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2008, 04:26 AM   #640
x-type
con los terroristas
 
x-type's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bjelovar [HR]
Posts: 13,471
Likes (Received): 3438

so H roads will require sticker too it really bad especially this one in Maribor. it looks more as city road then as interregional motorway
__________________
Svaki dan sanjam autobahn...
x-type no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
highways, motorways

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium