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Old May 6th, 2008, 08:01 PM   #781
keber
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Actually AADT will be pretty low for a motorway, A5 is being built so fast (and consequently also very cheaply) because of large truck number. When Croatia enters EU and later Schengen, some traffic will definitely divert through Croatia. How cost effective and cheaply this motorway is built, you can see on this picture:
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Old May 6th, 2008, 08:46 PM   #782
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This does not look like a motorway Were are markings ?
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Old May 6th, 2008, 08:51 PM   #783
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this section is not in operation yet, it is supposed to be in october
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Old May 6th, 2008, 09:15 PM   #784
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How much can a shoulder cost on the total budget? It can't be that much, as far as i know most money goes to viaducts, tunnels and the roadway itself. If you want to build cheap, you can always make a thinner foundation under the shoulder.
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Old May 6th, 2008, 09:33 PM   #785
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Land cost. Just look at how close fence and trees are. Especially noticeable at higher embankments and cuttings. Also less supporting walls were necessary in otherwise pretty difficult geology, which can be pretty expensive.

But otherwise I agree with you. Cost difference between full profile motorway and reduced one was about 15-20%, also it could be done one year earlier (motorway is nearing completion), and this had been enough to meet 2008 deadline, which was promised three years ago.
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Old May 6th, 2008, 09:49 PM   #786
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Maybe they can add them later. Even 2,5m wide shoulders can do the job.

Besides that, i hate shoulders that have a guardrail immediatly next to them. It means in case of a breakdown, you have to park your car very close to the driving lanes, which can be dangerous. In the Netherlands, there's usually space to park your car in the grass.
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Old May 6th, 2008, 11:35 PM   #787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
. Just look at how close fence and trees are.
cutting down few trees and moving the fence further away shouldn't be a problem though
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Old May 7th, 2008, 12:06 AM   #788
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khm, this really looks as german standard for motorways built in 60es or 70es large dissapointment. the weirdest thing is that it has A number and it is green.

what is this number 7 at sign?
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Old May 7th, 2008, 12:09 AM   #789
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Exit number?
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Old May 7th, 2008, 12:41 AM   #790
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obviously. i see exit number for the first time at 1000 m direction table
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Old May 7th, 2008, 09:24 AM   #791
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these are Verso's photos of A5 section (in operation since 2003)
you all exaggerate a bit with the section which is still under construction





Verso I hope you don't mind
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Old May 7th, 2008, 10:01 AM   #792
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Quote:
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khm, this really looks as german standard for motorways built in 60es or 70es large dissapointment.
Or rather Austrian A11 in 90ies, which in my opinion doesn't need any hard shoulders.

Quote:
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the weirdest thing is that it has A number and it is green.
A8 and A9?

@Chris, hard shoulders are planned to be build later, when other more necessary motorway projects will be finished. Most object (over/underpasses, some viaducts) are built such, that hard shoulder can be easily added. Mind, that A5 was originally (in 2004) planned to be finished in 2013. To speed-up project obviously some compromises were needed.

It is a big and busy construction site. This year almost 70 km of that motorway will be opened. Most of Slovenian motorway construction mechanization is situated there, which can be felt on some other motorway construction project, which are advancing more slowly as they otherwise should.

@muravidék: You can cut some trees for a sake of visibility, but you can't move fence on land that is not in state ownership.
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Old May 7th, 2008, 11:22 AM   #793
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What kind of AADT can we expect on the new A5? Between 10,000 and 20,000 or something like that?
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Old May 7th, 2008, 02:32 PM   #794
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I think big majority of AADT on Budapest-Graz- and Budapest-Zagreb-Ljubljana routes is local traffic, so I'm not sure if the AADT of the A5 will sky-rocket.

Of course I don't mind, muravidék.
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Old May 7th, 2008, 02:36 PM   #795
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Actually numbers will be quite lower.

For 2006 traffic data for one only currently open section around Murska Sobota show AADT of around 5000, however that includes around 2300 of trucks with trailers. Actually personal cars account for only 40 % of AADT or only 2000 cars. For 2008 let say there will be around 2200 cars and around 5000 trucks (which are nowadays counted almost regulary). = around 7-8 thousand AADT.

First part around Maribor however had around 15000 AADT in 2006 with about 2500 trucks with trailers. Let's say that in 2008 it will have around 20.000 including 5000 trucks. Probably about 90% of traffic will be later transfered to new opened motorway (which has hard shoulders first 5 km from A1).

As you see, there is not enough AADT to justify full scale motorway, but 5000 trucks daily are good reason for at least motorway at reduced size.
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Old May 7th, 2008, 05:17 PM   #796
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Quote:
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A8 and A9?
it's only at some internet pages. at road there is no single sign with A, all are signed B
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Old May 12th, 2008, 08:40 PM   #797
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Ok, I came back to bulgaria, I travelled back with the Bus, a good new Setra Bus, and I must say that the slovenian motorways and nationalroads felt and looked best of all, the asphalt isn´t the smoothest, but slightly rough which fells better and is better for very good grip, they aren´t bumpy at all, it´s amazing how even they are, they are like the best parts of Struma motorway and the E-79 nationalroad.
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Old May 12th, 2008, 09:05 PM   #798
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There must've been at least one crappy section though. Hopefully this short section fades away once you either drive through that cool cut-and-cover (cut'n'cover ) (direction Ljubljana), or enter motorway, which ends no sooner than by Niš (direction Zagreb/Sofia).
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Old May 13th, 2008, 12:42 AM   #799
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Yes, there is this one crappy section but it´s not long, I like the Slovenian markings alot aswell, they don´t fade out at all. The pay stations look also cool and the lit arrow signs in Lubliana are amazing, the white concrete in the middle of the motorway under bridges looks apsolutely great, too, the crashbarriers are shiny and round, not crappy angular, the signs are also very good, but what I didn´t like was that the very new section with the bridges and tunnel is not as smooth and even as the old motorway parts Lubliana Austria and Lubliana - Croatian border. After the croatian border however x-type a new world began, the motorways had good asphalt, but that was all, they were an eyesore.
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Old May 13th, 2008, 12:56 AM   #800
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they were eyesore (whatever that means ) because A3 is extremely boring motorway. i claim that signalization is absolutely at the same level in both countries, SLO & HR. i'd say that in HR it is more logical (beside blue motorway sign ), for instance, we don't have salad at direction signs, while you can find it in SLO. SLO has much better dynamic signalization, i must say that's my largest envy for slovenian motorways (although i think our dynamic signs are more dense, but i cannot claim for sure). also, that mess with road numbers at Ljubljana ring is not possible to find in Croatia. we don't have totso's at all, so all numbers are really usefull and nice solved. oh yes, our toll stations are mostly better. there are only few in Slovenia that look nice to me (Kompolje, those at Ljubljana - Zagreb motorway and no more actually). at all, i'd say that we have really similar motorways.
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