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Old November 16th, 2008, 10:40 PM   #1401
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Actually yes, because it serves to local traffic of Ptuj area. Maribor-Ptuj has double amount of traffic than Ptuj - CRO border (18.500 AADT against 8600). Alomost 20.000 vehicles daily certainly deserve motorway.
well, 8600 for border crossing is really not a poor result. and ignoring fact that road is part of extremely important international corridor is just lousy. sometimes when i read slovenian aadt facts i ask myself do we have traffic in Croatia at all, and why the hell are we building all those motorways for
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Old November 16th, 2008, 10:52 PM   #1402
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well, 8600 for border crossing is really not a poor result.
Building a big, wide, fat (and shiny) border crossing is really not a problem, the problem is the rest of the road, which has the same AADT. Actually, the border crossing is pretty much already built; you know, our notorious 0.6-km-long motorway.
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Old November 16th, 2008, 11:00 PM   #1403
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Won't it mostly use the existing carriageway?
True, but close to state border the valley is pretty narrow and has probably quite demanding geology (as has proven A2 on Croatian side). Northern part will probably be pretty easy and inexpensive.

http://www.dpa.mop.gov.si/doc/drazen...e_povzetek.pdf
(second page has a map)

Still, motorway will be built, but I don't know, if 2011 is right date, especially considering incoming economy crisis.
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Old November 16th, 2008, 11:13 PM   #1404
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Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Building a big, wide, fat (and shiny) border crossing is really not a problem, the problem is the rest of the road, which has the same AADT. Actually, the border crossing is pretty much already built; you know, our notorious 0.6-km-long motorway.
you're not that much right. most of hard terrain is at croatian side of border. there you would have only some 5 km of harder terrain from Kozminci to border. north from Kozminci there is totaly flat valley. maybe there should be 1 km more little bit more difficult (but not categorized as difficulty actually) terrain at Podlehnik bypass.
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Old November 16th, 2008, 11:48 PM   #1405
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I wasn't talking about terrain, but motorways with a low AADT being a problem as such.
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Old November 17th, 2008, 12:11 AM   #1406
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what is aadt at Karavanke?
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Old November 17th, 2008, 12:56 AM   #1407
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6,604 last year, why?
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Old November 17th, 2008, 09:38 AM   #1408
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Are there jams at Karavanke in the summer months?
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Old November 17th, 2008, 01:10 PM   #1409
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Who knows.

Officially it should be finished until end of 2011. But I wouldn't bet on that, because it will be relatively expensive project, and pay-off is not pretty high.
I don't understand why do take a pay-off into consideration now you have the vignette system. Building a few km of motorways won't make any difference on income from vignette sale. I suppose there are only few people in Ptuj who didn't by the vignette because there is no motorway till Ptuj, so the impact after the A4 is built on vignettes sale won't definitely be considerable.
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Old November 17th, 2008, 03:14 PM   #1410
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Are there jams at Karavanke in the summer months?
Prior to Schengen there used to be, but I don't remember much of them this summer.

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I don't understand why do take a pay-off into consideration now you have the vignette system. Building a few km of motorways won't make any difference on income from vignette sale. I suppose there are only few people in Ptuj who didn't by the vignette because there is no motorway till Ptuj, so the impact after the A4 is built on vignettes sale won't definitely be considerable.
But you have to maintain it.
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Old November 17th, 2008, 03:15 PM   #1411
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Are there jams at Karavanke in the summer months?
After Slovenia into Schengen entry almost none.

>>> Building a few km of motorways won't make any difference on income from vignette sale.
Precisely. Looking in such view, additional motorways are only additional cost and no profit. Tolls from vignettes usually don''t rise much with openings of new motorways, so construction of new motorways must be considered carefully.
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Old November 17th, 2008, 06:00 PM   #1412
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Prior to Schengen there used to be, but I don't remember much of them this summer.
Thanks, so it's not like the Gotthard tunnel or sth? I mean, you can keep waiting there for hours.
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Old November 17th, 2008, 06:00 PM   #1413
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Quote:
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so construction of new motorways must be considered carefully.
Especially if they lead to Croatia...
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Old November 17th, 2008, 06:08 PM   #1414
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6,604 last year, why?
because it seems to be much more important to you than Pyhrn route. i just cannot believe that you find Gruškovje as a minor border crossing
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Old November 17th, 2008, 06:11 PM   #1415
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Especially if they lead to Croatia...
Oh, in that case postpone the construction till after 2050 or so.

It makes every proud Slovene feel like a little god.
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Old November 17th, 2008, 07:53 PM   #1416
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because it seems to be much more important to you than Pyhrn route. i just cannot believe that you find Gruškovje as a minor border crossing
Of course it's much more important; in Ljubljana we don't need that road whatsoever. But other than that, I didn't say Gruškovje was a minor border crossing. And I don't know what the Karavanke Tunnel has to do with this anyway. It's not motorway, it has just one tube. Are you aware of where the traffic used to cross the Karawank Mountains prior to 1991? Especially trucks! The road between Ptuj and the Croatian border (except in summer) isn't bad at all: speed limit mostly 90 km/h (not even one village), fine pavement and low traffic.

Q: Is any nation as annoying in regards to foreign motorways as Croats are in regards to Slovenian motorways?
A: No.
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Old November 17th, 2008, 08:18 PM   #1417
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because they don't have SLO for neighbours. you are so silly with negating an importance and duty to build motorways to east, too. if you don't consider Karavanke as a motorway, i don't have anything against that there is 2 way road long 8 km with 24/7 supervision and intervention vehicles ready in each moment at Gruškovje.
really, don't you find silly and stupid the fact that almost each motorway in your country ends 20 km before border?
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Old November 17th, 2008, 08:35 PM   #1418
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because they don't have SLO for neighbours.
1. Last time I checked, we had 3 other neighbors.
2. There are a lot of other countries not having motorways to neighboring countries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by x-type View Post
you are so silly with negating an importance and duty to build motorways to east, too. if you don't consider Karavanke as a motorway, i don't have anything against that there is 2 way road long 8 km with 24/7 supervision and intervention vehicles ready in each moment at Gruškovje.
I don't get any point here.

Quote:
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really, don't you find silly and stupid the fact that almost each motorway in your country ends 20 km before border?
Let's see:
- A1 reaches the border
- A2 reaches the Croatian border
- A2 reaches the Austrian border (except for the Karavanke Tunnel, which is a special object)
- A3 reaches the border
- A5 reaches the border
- H4 reaches the border
- H5 reaches the border
- H7 (almost) reaches the border

Last edited by Verso; November 17th, 2008 at 08:43 PM.
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Old November 17th, 2008, 08:37 PM   #1419
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really, don't you find silly and stupid the fact that almost each motorway in your country ends 20 km before border?
As for the connection between Ljubljana and Rijeka, the anser is quite simple, even for a foreigner. Slovenians have NO iterest in building a highway connection with Croatioan coast, that's why they focused on Lj - Kr connection.
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Old November 17th, 2008, 08:42 PM   #1420
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Quote:
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Let's see:
- A1 reaches the Austrian border
- A2 reaches the Croatian border :WOW:
- A2 reaches the Austrian border (except for the Karavanke Tunnel, which is a special object)
- A3 reaches the Italian border
- A5 reaches the Hungarian border
- H4 reaches the Italian border
- H5 reaches the Italian border

i wouldn't say anything if you had some short border with Croatia
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