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Old December 7th, 2008, 02:28 PM   #1561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Aren't concessionaires famous for not maintaining motorways properly?
To be honest our concessionaires have been doing a good job in that respect.

This is the CRIL a motorway (IC) that isnt concessioned




And one right next door that is managed by Brisa (the A5)

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I'm not sure where you heard that but surely in our country the motorways that are not managed by concessionaires are in a much worse state of disrepair, simply because as you know the state does not invest the money it earns from taxing motorists back into the roads.
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Old December 7th, 2008, 02:35 PM   #1562
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...simply because as you know the state does not invest the money it earns from taxing motorists back into the roads.
earns?? you mean rips-off...
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Old December 7th, 2008, 02:37 PM   #1563
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French Concessionaires do a good job maintaining an Autoroute imo. I've never encountered a bad-pavement tolled motorway there. The toll-free motorways are a quite some other story though.
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Old December 7th, 2008, 02:42 PM   #1564
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well, I've never encountered a bad-pavement road there...
(nor tolled motorway neither any other road...)

and tolled motorways are quite expensive...
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Old December 7th, 2008, 02:53 PM   #1565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fern View Post
I'm not sure where you heard that
IMO concessionaires tend not to care about us, whereas state is supposed to be a more responsible institution (although it often isn't), it's supposed not to be all about money (although it often is). I know that many Italian toll-free expressways are in a bad condition, but what about toll motorways, administered by the state? Are there any such at all? I think there are some.
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Old December 7th, 2008, 04:10 PM   #1566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
earns?? you mean rips-off...
Or that

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
French Concessionaires do a good job maintaining an Autoroute imo. I've never encountered a bad-pavement tolled motorway there. The toll-free motorways are a quite some other story though.
That seems to be the case in most countries I have visited. The reason being that the contract obliges the concessionaire to keep to a good standard of maintenance or risk losing its priviledges.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
IMO concessionaires tend not to care about us, whereas state is supposed to be a more responsible institution (although it often isn't), it's supposed not to be all about money (although it often is). I know that many Italian toll-free expressways are in a bad condition, but what about toll motorways, administered by the state? Are there any such at all? I think there are some.
The state is the first to let the property it's responsible for fall into disrepair. It is so complex and disorganised that often some areas are favoured at the expense of others which are overlooked. And we all know in this forum how motorists are disregarded and what's more, public transport is often not an alternative.

You cannot forget that in most countries it is hard for the state to invest more on roads especially due to green lobbyists.
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Old December 7th, 2008, 05:02 PM   #1567
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Thatīs why communism didnīt (donīt) work. When everything is ours ( the People!!!) and NOTHING is mine, then nobody really cares.
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Old December 7th, 2008, 05:26 PM   #1568
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Quote:
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Thatīs why communism didnīt (donīt) work. When everything is ours ( the People!!!) and NOTHING is mine, then nobody really cares.
Thats not entirely true. A lot of things were of higher quality than now.
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Old December 7th, 2008, 06:44 PM   #1569
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Thatīs why communism didnīt (donīt) work. When everything is ours ( the People!!!) and NOTHING is mine, then nobody really cares.
well, our motorways are really in good condition. and only 2 of them are in concession/ppp: M5/M6.
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Old December 7th, 2008, 07:55 PM   #1570
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Quote:
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well, our motorways are really in good condition. and only 2 of them are in concession/ppp: M5/M6.
i thought that M5 lost concession when toll booths were removed. but concessionaires probably just made a deal about entering into vignette system
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Old December 14th, 2008, 03:24 PM   #1571
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Quite some snow on the border crossing Korensko sedlo/Wurzenpaß with Austria:

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Old December 14th, 2008, 03:34 PM   #1572
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Is that a motorway?
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Old December 14th, 2008, 03:40 PM   #1573
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I don't think so.
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Old December 14th, 2008, 03:46 PM   #1574
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Ok that's reassuring.
I've read there are problems in Austria and Slovenia due to snow. I'll drive there next week so for a moment I've felt myself going pale.
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Old December 14th, 2008, 04:08 PM   #1575
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Where are you going?

This is by the Karawank Tunnel, btw:





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Old December 14th, 2008, 04:18 PM   #1576
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St Anton am Arlberg but we have to pick up a friend in Trieste first and since the car owner has a Slovenian vignette he want to pass through Slovenia and Karawank tunnel (which I think is an utterly irrational idea btw).
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Old December 14th, 2008, 04:26 PM   #1577
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Why? I don't know where exactly he lives, but from the center of Trieste to Villach (A2ŨA10ŨA11) it's about 11 km less and 1.9 € cheaper through Slovenia than via Udine.
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Old December 14th, 2008, 04:39 PM   #1578
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Cause we have to go on the other side of Austria.
East-West links in Austria (especially coming from south) are rather bad, it's better to pass through Veneto and Trentino or (if coming from north) Bavaria.

Why 1.9 € cheaper? If you have a vignette you don't have to pay anything right?
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Old December 14th, 2008, 04:49 PM   #1579
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You still have to pay the Karavanke Tunnel.

If you go over Salzburg, it's 25 km more, but 16.8 € cheaper.
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Old December 14th, 2008, 04:55 PM   #1580
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Yeah, but the car owner already has this $tupid vignette, so it's better to go through Slovenia
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