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Old February 20th, 2009, 07:31 PM   #1721
ChrisZwolle
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Slovenia sets regulations and laws for NIMBY's to be effective. Rule them out and there won't be a problem (and SLO would be less democratic). I think it's stupid a couple of people really affected by a certain project (not just some anti-car group) can delay a much-needed construction for years or even decades.
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Old February 20th, 2009, 08:03 PM   #1722
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Such as?
H4, H5, G2, even A5. i know you will now say that volume of traffic approves it, but it is artificially made. if Croatia would enter EU, A2 would become much more important route than A5. i actually claim it is allready more important
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Old February 20th, 2009, 09:07 PM   #1723
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H4, H5, G2, even A5. i know you will now say that volume of traffic approves it, but it is artificially made. if Croatia would enter EU, A2 would become much more important route than A5. i actually claim it is allready more important
What did you say about "if" a few posts back? The Balkan wars were also artificial, but the Croatian-Serbian border was closed, and therefore construction of the A3 motorway until the border was opened again, was unnecessary. Aren't roads themselves artificial? And I really don't know why you're talking about A2, when all of it is either built (almost 90%) or U/C.

As for those roads you mentioned... G2 is not even a motorway, but an ordinary 2-lane road, so much cheaper than motorways. And believe me, what's been built by now (not particularly much), was absolutely necessary, as it was town bypasses. Traffic in Ptuj was horrible, I always needed some half an hour to get through. It also bypasses Ormož and Pragersko, with its stupid train station, where you waited half an hour for all trains to get lost, as the station was on the road. Finally, the G2 also serves northern Croatia, so maybe you'd look at it differently, if you were from Čakovec or Varaždin.

H5 is too short to lose much words on it, but part of it bypasses Koper, which generates big traffic for such a small town. And anyway, it also serves Croatian Istria, so how can you complain? Last time I checked, you wanted it to be extended to the Croatian border.

A5 (and I'm explaining this for some 5th time) was built b/c the old road (G3) went through many many villages, and b/c there was too many trucks for the local population (more than 100,000 a month), and locals closed the V. Corridor many times, which is unacceptable, but I understand them. If not so many people lived by the road, the A5 would only be built in 2013.

So the only possibility here is H4. But without it there would be a big area without a motorway/expressway. And anyway, it links Ljubljana with Nova Gorica, the Slovenian Las Vegas.
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Old February 20th, 2009, 09:18 PM   #1724
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i have mentioned G2 just because you allways show it at motorway map. it was kinda ironic.
H5 - if it is so usefull to Croatia, why didn't you make connection of Koper with HR border than? it even isn't in some plans.

and about that "if" - only Slovenia makes existing it in my sentence.
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Old February 20th, 2009, 09:32 PM   #1725
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i have mentioned G2 just because you allways show it at motorway map. it was kinda ironic.
Those DARS-made maps show everything DARS has built or will build, even ordinary 2-lane roads, like the connection between A5 and Murska Sobota.

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H5 - if it is so usefull to Croatia, why didn't you make connection of Koper with HR border than? it even isn't in some plans.
Of course it is, its path is already determined. I don't understand your question though. There's no expressway between Koper and Croatian border, but that doesn't mean the existing H5 doesn't connect Croatian Istria with Italy, and I know Croatian Istrians are very happy at least that section exists, I doubt many of them stop in Koper anyway.

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and about that "if" - only Slovenia makes existing it in my sentence.
If Croatia was in EU................... but it isn't.
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Old February 20th, 2009, 09:33 PM   #1726
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i know you will now say that volume of traffic approves it, but it is artificially made.
You mean to say, that traffic data are manipulated?
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Old February 20th, 2009, 09:44 PM   #1727
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You mean to say, that traffic data are manipulated?
I think he means that A5 was built "only" (!) because Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria entered EU (of course Hungary entered at the same time as Slovenia). But as he said it himself: if "if" wasn't "if", god knows what it would be. If Croatia was in EU................. but it isn't. And even if it already was, the traffic would only increase so much as the Croatian economy is worth, and the Croatian market is small, b/c it's a small country (yes, Croatia is small too ). The main country here is Serbia (considering Croatia is already in EU or enters it at the same time at the latest), b/c without Serbia in EU traffic will still avoid Croatia, if it goes to Romania, Bulgaria or Greece... And by the time Serbia enters EU, the A2 and A4 will be long completed.
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Old February 20th, 2009, 09:48 PM   #1728
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You mean to say, that traffic data are manipulated?
no. i say that slovenia is moving traffic to some new routes with blocking croatia to enter the eu, and those routes were not crucial nor that important few years ago just because they are not physical shortest or the most logical
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Old February 20th, 2009, 09:58 PM   #1729
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So you're saying that Slovenia entered EU and before that declared independence (which is what Croatia did on the same day anyway) just so that the traffic between Slovenia and Hungary can avoid Croatia? Why aren't you also accusing Hungary of building the M70 sooner than M6, which goes to Croatia? Slovenia and Hungary also had to build a brand new railway, so we can avoid Croatia, which is only logical.

Finally, your argument of how many more Slovenian motorways should lead to Croatia, b/c their border is so long, might be counter-productive, b/c the shortness of the Slovenian-Hungarian border is the reason, why the A5 has more traffic than you'd expect. All the traffic to Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria has to go through that bottleneck, while there are more possibilities by a long border, so the traffic is dispersed and lower than one would expect.
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Old February 20th, 2009, 11:43 PM   #1730
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no. i say that slovenia is moving traffic to some new routes with blocking croatia to enter the eu, and those routes were not crucial nor that important few years ago just because they are not physical shortest or the most logical
A5 was planned from early 1990-ies. Slovenia did not reroute truck traffic because of blocking Croatia from entering EU, but truck traffic rerouted itself because of political situation in Balkan territory. That's why you don't see Greek trucks or cars anywhere in Slovenia (or Croatia). And you won't see drastical increase in traffic on your A3 (or Slovenian A2) until Serbia also joins EU.
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Old February 20th, 2009, 11:59 PM   #1731
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That's why you don't see Greek trucks or cars anywhere in Slovenia (or Croatia).
I see them every now and then. After all, Greece is now part of the contiguous EU. Actually I remember that red car having Greek license plates.
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Old February 21st, 2009, 12:03 AM   #1732
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Hot discussion these days, really amuzing, but if Slovenia really builds the motorways so that traffic avoids Croatia itīs not very nice.
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Old February 21st, 2009, 12:08 AM   #1733
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I see them every now and then. After all, Greece is now part of the contiguous EU. Actually I remember that red car having Greek license plates.
OK, I see two Greek cars a year, but certainly no trucks. Still, they are very rare, considering where Greece actually is and especially comparing to nimber of Turkish trucks.

Radi, we don't build motorways because to avoid Croatia, but to avoid heavy traffic jams on main roads, not only just in tourist season, but through whole year. Actually, did Bulgaria built Struma motorway to avoid Macedonia?
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Old February 21st, 2009, 12:12 AM   #1734
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Hot discussion these days, really amuzing, but if Slovenia really builds the motorways so that traffic avoids Croatia itīs not very nice.
Why would traffic avoid Croatia anyway? Even with bad roads it wouldn't avoid it. You're not telling me someone going from Trieste to Sarajevo will avoid Croatia over Hungary and Serbia. As for avoiding Croatia while going from Slovenia to Hungary or vice-versa is only logical, b/c we border each other. Croatia also wants to avoid B&H by its coast (Neum) to connect the two parts of Croatia, which is only logical and understandable. Why would I have to go to Hungary through Croatia, and declare goods?
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Old February 21st, 2009, 12:32 AM   #1735
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A5 was planned from early 1990-ies. Slovenia did not reroute truck traffic because of blocking Croatia from entering EU, but truck traffic rerouted itself because of political situation in Balkan territory. That's why you don't see Greek trucks or cars anywhere in Slovenia (or Croatia). And you won't see drastical increase in traffic on your A3 (or Slovenian A2) until Serbia also joins EU.
of course it was. but A2 was planned much earlier. and it still isn't finnished. not to mention importanceof A4 which will never be completed. Greek lorries use ferries to Italy, that's the only reason why they are not often in HR or SLO. even when Serbia and Macedonia enter EU, Greeks will use ferries to Italy for lorries because it's cheaper.
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So you're saying that Slovenia entered EU and before that declared independence (which is what Croatia did on the same day anyway) just so that the traffic between Slovenia and Hungary can avoid Croatia? Why aren't you also accusing Hungary of building the M70 sooner than M6, which goes to Croatia? Slovenia and Hungary also had to build a brand new railway, so we can avoid Croatia, which is only logical.

Finally, your argument of how many more Slovenian motorways should lead to Croatia, b/c their border is so long, might be counter-productive, b/c the shortness of the Slovenian-Hungarian border is the reason, why the A5 has more traffic than you'd expect. All the traffic to Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria has to go through that bottleneck, while there are more possibilities by a long border, so the traffic is dispersed and lower than one would expect.
you are commiting sabotage over routes via HR, that's the fact. you have finnished expressly motorway to H, and you were not able to finnish none of the motorways to HR. wasn't A5 built in really express period?you have set prioirties in that way to additionaly block transit traffic through HR. it is actually pointless to finish A2 or A4 because you are blocking us to enter EU. Piran is not the reason, it is only alibi for slovenian scare of loosing its position from strong player. so you are destroying and blocking HR in every area where you can because you are conscious that when HR enters EU, SLo will lose a lot. so the recipe is to block HR as longer as possible to destroy each part where it can be competitive.
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Old February 21st, 2009, 12:50 AM   #1736
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I see you never drove from Maribor to Balaton. As for the rest of the text, I'm lost.
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Old February 21st, 2009, 01:24 AM   #1737
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you are commiting sabotage over routes via HR, that's the fact. you have finnished expressly motorway to H, and you were not able to finnish none of the motorways to HR. wasn't A5 built in really express period?you have set prioirties in that way to additionaly block transit traffic through HR. it is actually pointless to finish A2 or A4 because you are blocking us to enter EU. Piran is not the reason, it is only alibi for slovenian scare of loosing its position from strong player. so you are destroying and blocking HR in every area where you can because you are conscious that when HR enters EU, SLo will lose a lot. so the recipe is to block HR as longer as possible to destroy each part where it can be competitive.


Where do you pick such stupidities from?
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Old February 21st, 2009, 01:29 AM   #1738
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really amazing
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Old February 21st, 2009, 01:34 AM   #1739
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Croatian conspiracy theories are amusing.
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Old February 21st, 2009, 03:06 AM   #1740
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A1 over Pesnica roundabout. AADT on this ramp must be very low until the Maribor bypass is completed; no wonder there's no one on the horizon. Notice the odd left (green) sign; everything is hanging somewhere.

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