Mumbai Metro Updates

[IchimaruGin1]

Originally Posted by shanware

Interesting you say that. I was just reading the following article

http://business.rediff.com/slide-sho...ercial-hub.htm

I think there is a genuine effort to create a number of new commerical areas in Mumbai as alternatives to the Nariman point-BKC centers. How well reality mirrors these beautiful plans will be interesting to see.

in my book its about which place has the space and which place does not.

Clearly the planners need to decide, once and for all. Why people use the rail lines? to get to work.

See now if I work at the Bandra kurla complex which is about 1.5 km from kurla station , if i live in mulund and i use the metro, to get to kurla I get down at Ghatkopar and then have to take another train to kurla.

Whats the point of that? might as well take a normal train directly to kurla.


What they have done is indentified Andheri as a centre of commerce. Which imo is a big mistake as kurla will be closer to a much bigger development for office space.

Let office space potential dictate the junctions, not populace.

[bhargavsura]

Originally Posted by IchimaruGin1

in my book its about which place has the space and which place does not.

Clearly the planners need to decide, once and for all. Why people use the rail lines? to get to work.

See now if I work at the Bandra kurla complex which is about 1.5 km from kurla station , if i live in mulund and i use the metro, to get to kurla I get down at Ghatkopar and then have to take another train to kurla.

Whats the point of that? might as well take a normal train directly to kurla.

For your case, you can do that.

But in order to make Metro reach many parts of the city, direct connections is not possible. At some place a traveler will have to change the trains because what if he's traveling from east to the west and then he wants to go north?

Originally Posted by IchimaruGin1

What they have done is indentified Andheri as a centre of commerce. Which imo is a big mistake as kurla will be closer to a much bigger development for office space.

Let office space potential dictate the junctions, not populace.

Andheri is still more of a commercial region. Kurla is developing slowly. Metro needs to pick up the office goers from stations like Andheri and drop it off at Kurla, not the other way around.

[IchimaruGin1]

Originally Posted by bhargavsura

For your case, you can do that.

But in order to make Metro reach many parts of the city, direct connections is not possible. At some place a traveler will have to change the trains because what if he's traveling from east to the west and then he wants to go north?


Andheri is still more of a commercial region. Kurla is developing slowly. Metro needs to pick up the office goers from stations like Andheri and drop it off at Kurla, not the other way around.

I dont agree to this connect various part of the city approach. Mumbai area wise is a very small city. even the unconnected part are probably within 2-3 km of a station and can surely make use of a bus to get to them.

Also which parts might they be? The unconnected parts that is? I am looking at a map and cant find any real ones apart from navi mumbai?

Fair enough increasing east west burb connectivity makes perfect sense. Freaking build a line from Mulund or thane to Borivali. (depending on potential passenger use)

[shanware]

Deleted

Itch,

What do you propose we should have done ? Can you suggest some solutions ?

[IchimaruGin1]

Originally Posted by shanware

Deleted

Itch,

What do you propose we should have done ? Can you suggest some solutions ?

Build the around Bandra and Kurla, instead of Ghatkopar make kurla along with Bandra a major junction.

I never understood why ghatkopar of all places was given so much importance.


They will build from mulund to ghatkopar a metro line. Whats the logic in ignoring a major station like thane? I would extend it from Thane (a city with much bigger population) to kurla.

Even with the metro mumbai airport has poor rail connectivity to the hotels and centres of commerce. You will have to hitch a ride at various connections to Bandra or Ghatkopar.

Maybe an independent line from the airport to churchgate (nearest station to nariman point.) With only 2-3 stops in between encompassing Worli Marine lines.

this is mainly to cater to the buiness travellers. the tourists etc can make their own way.

As a last stage to that project connect Thane to Dahisar along Mira road and Bhayandar and connect all the suburbs up in a circular line. Similar to the London underground circle line. Again the economic realities of such a route need to be accessed.

Plus I would reduce the number of stations on the Ghatkopar Versova line. There are 12 stations in a strech of 11.4km. Nearly 1km between stations. It takes 15min to walk one km for a normal person. Make the number of stations about 7-8 and that will be enough. A metro is meant to be fast. With so many stops you might as well have a normal slow train cause by the time you accelerate your braking for the stop. 21 minutes given on the metro website to travel 11.4 km is too slow.

[Vkumar]

Isnt 11.4 kms too less for a city of Mumbais stature. The locals are as it is very crowded.. Is ther a reason why this was restricted to 11.4 kms in the first phase.. If this has been answered before, I would appreciate if someone can guide me to the page on which it has been answered... I found this a little strange when other smaller cities are covering more distance in their first phase of the metro

[IchimaruGin1]

Originally Posted by Vkumar

Isnt 11.4 kms too less for a city of Mumbais stature. The locals are as it is very crowded.. Is ther a reason why this was restricted to 11.4 kms in the first phase.. If this has been answered before, I would appreciate if someone can guide me to the page on which it has been answered... I found this a little strange when other smaller cities are covering more distance in their first phase of the metro

other cities dont have a relatively comprehension suberban system

No idea why they restricted to so less in phase one.

[Kewl Batty]

Schindler to supply key infrastructure projects in India

India is investing substantial sums in infrastructure to promote economic growth, and Swiss elevator and escalator maker Schindler has been chosen as mobility provider for three major projects, including the metros of Mumbai and Delhi as well as a new terminal for Chennai (formerly Madras) airport. The contracts were concluded in the first half of 2009 and installation of elevators and escalators is due to start later this year.

With the Mumbai metro rail project, the world's third-largest city is to get its own mass transit system. The first line to be installed – from west to east (Versova to Ghatkopar) – is expected to cut the journey time across the city from 90 minutes at present (by road) to just 21 minutes. With trains at 3.5-minute intervals, the line will be able to transport about 600,000 people per day.

Schindler is supplying 97 escalators for the new line's 12 stations, which will all be elevated above ground to facilitate connections to buses, cars and other forms of transport. The first Schindler installations will be installed in November 2009. The line, scheduled for completion in 2011, is the first of several planned for the new metro system, which will complement Mumbai's suburban rail system and network of buses. Currently, 11 million people use Mumbai's public transport services daily.

Schindler is also supplying 53 escalators for the Delhi Airport Metro Express Line (DAMEL), the latest extension to the capital's expanding metro system. The new 23km line, scheduled for completion in October 2010, will create a rail link to Indira Gandhi International airport. Three metro stations out of the six along the new line will have baggage check-in facilities for airline passengers. Schindler's installations are due to start being installed from December 2009.

A third infrastructure project secured by Schindler is a new terminal for Chennai airport, the country's third busiest after Mumbai and Delhi. The expansion project will boost passenger capacity from 10 million at present to 30 million annually by completion in January 2011. Schindler is to supply 41 elevators and 12 escalators for a new 140, 000 square-meter terminal building, with installation scheduled to start in June 2010.

[Abhishek901]

Originally Posted by Vkumar

Isnt 11.4 kms too less for a city of Mumbais stature. The locals are as it is very crowded.. Is ther a reason why this was restricted to 11.4 kms in the first phase.. If this has been answered before, I would appreciate if someone can guide me to the page on which it has been answered... I found this a little strange when other smaller cities are covering more distance in their first phase of the metro

The first phase has 2 more lines. 2nd line is Charkop-Mankhurd, the tender of which have already been awarded (to RIL). 3rd line of Phase-I is Bandra-Colaba. There are in all 3 phases which cover 9 lines totalling 146.5 km. For more info see the first page of this thread.

[Advait]

Originally Posted by Vkumar

Isnt 11.4 kms too less for a city of Mumbais stature. The locals are as it is very crowded.. Is ther a reason why this was restricted to 11.4 kms in the first phase.. If this has been answered before, I would appreciate if someone can guide me to the page on which it has been answered... I found this a little strange when other smaller cities are covering more distance in their first phase of the metro

Mumbai metro is oriented mostly width-wise to complement the suburban trains which are oriented length-wise to the Mumbai city. The width being small and also the economic feasibility studies may not allow longer width-wise routes because home to work traffic is largely along the length of mumbai.

[shanware]

Originally Posted by IchimaruGin1

Build the around Bandra and Kurla, instead of Ghatkopar make kurla along with Bandra a major junction.

I never understood why ghatkopar of all places was given so much importance.

The Versova-Ghatkopar line, I think, is an excellent idea. Why Ghatkopar ? Cause I think it suits a overhead metro, with MV road providing a 'wide' road on which to construct the metro. Andheri(East), SEEPZ and MIDC are significant 'work areas' that will be serviced by the metro. At the moment, people working here take auto/bus/car. The metro will reduce congestion on this route



They will build from mulund to ghatkopar a metro line. Whats the logic in ignoring a major station like thane? I would extend it from Thane (a city with much bigger population) to kurla.

My guess is Thane was left out because of the wrangling between the MMRDA and the TMC. I'm almost certain that when time comes to award the contract for the line that Thane will get included after a few dharnas and rasta rokos. I agree with your point though, Thane should have been included.

Even with the metro mumbai airport has poor rail connectivity to the hotels and centres of commerce. You will have to hitch a ride at various connections to Bandra or Ghatkopar.

Phase III has a proposed line from BKC to Kanjur marg. However, I agree with you. This is nowhere as much as the connectivity that is desirable for the airport. Ideally, the metro from the airport should go to a metro junction with good connectivity. For example, someone traveling from airport to South mumbai after phase III completion might have to go to Kanjur marg/ BKC. Then go to Ghatkopar/Bandra and then to their respective destinations.
Maybe an independent line from the airport to churchgate (nearest station to nariman point.) With only 2-3 stops in between encompassing Worli Marine lines.

I'm not sure if the above is feasible.

this is mainly to cater to the buiness travellers. the tourists etc can make their own way.

A terminal-side monorail, running to the Andheri-Ghatkopar metro might not be a bad idea to start wth. what do you think ?

As a last stage to that project connect Thane to Dahisar along Mira road and Bhayandar and connect all the suburbs up in a circular line. Similar to the London underground circle line. Again the economic realities of such a route need to be accessed.

Again, I'm not sure if this is feasible in the current climate, given that we will have atleast 2 other east-west lines and neither Bhayander nor Thane are significant commercial areas at the moment.


Plus I would reduce the number of stations on the Ghatkopar Versova line. There are 12 stations in a strech of 11.4km. Nearly 1km between stations. It takes 15min to walk one km for a normal person. Make the number of stations about 7-8 and that will be enough. A metro is meant to be fast. With so many stops you might as well have a normal slow train cause by the time you accelerate your braking for the stop. 21 minutes given on the metro website to travel 11.4 km is too slow.

Here, I disagree with you. The value of a metro is only if the station is within walking distance for the traveller. 1 km between stations is plenty of distance IMHO. A metro is not mean to be fast, I think its supposed to be mass rapid transit. 21 minutes is not too bad for a comfortable journey fowllowed by a five minute walk. As against a 15 minute comfortable jouney followed by a 15 minute walk in the Mumbai sun

[bhargavsura]

Originally Posted by IchimaruGin1

Build the around Bandra and Kurla, instead of Ghatkopar make kurla along with Bandra a major junction.

I never understood why ghatkopar of all places was given so much importance.


They will build from mulund to ghatkopar a metro line. Whats the logic in ignoring a major station like thane? I would extend it from Thane (a city with much bigger population) to kurla.

For something like Ghatkopar, their first basic idea is to get the east-west suburbs connected. This is, I guess the first step towards the Mumbai metro all around. What I am thinking is that they have laid Ghatkopar as a platform and they will be building lines in the Central suburbs when needed. And it absolutely makes sense. In the past while traveling to Ghatkopar, it used to take me an hour thirty minuted to reach home by bus. Now, it's going to take probably 40 minutes in the Metro (when the Charkop line comes up). The reason they haven't started with Thane is because it would be a long route to connect Thane to Versova or Andheri.

Even with the metro, mumbai airport has poor rail connectivity to the hotels and centres of commerce. You will have to hitch a ride at various connections to Bandra or Ghatkopar.

Like I said before, changing the trains are common and there's no other possible option.

Plus I would reduce the number of stations on the Ghatkopar Versova line. There are 12 stations in a strech of 11.4km. Nearly 1km between stations. It takes 15min to walk one km for a normal person. Make the number of stations about 7-8 and that will be enough. A metro is meant to be fast. With so many stops you might as well have a normal slow train cause by the time you accelerate your braking for the stop. 21 minutes given on the metro website to travel 11.4 km is too slow.

How much time would it normally take to travel 12 km by road. An hour and a half? 45 minutes? Metro's reducing the time by half.

[Bombay Boy]

on that 11.4 km route by road anything less than 2 hours is good

[IchimaruGin1]

All points noted and firstly thanks for the replies.

I agree with shanware sir and bhargav sir have provided about ghatkopar. I did not know that.

But the point about taking connects at from the airport is not at all optimum as I assume many travellers will have some form of light suitcases and bags with them. The only option for the moment is a taxi ride.

Disgree on the number of stations etc. The name says mass RAPID transit. 11.4 km in 21 minutes means

km/time in hours= speed

11.4/ (21/60)= about 32 km per hour speed or for our non metric friends 20miles an hour.

Thats really slow guys. Tell me whats a point of a top notch rolling stock if you want to make them ply so slowly? Might as well buy a dirst cheap rolling stock

To put things is perspective even the slow lines on the suberban railway run at 35 km an hour. You people are giving me and example of how long it take by road.

I will give you an example of how long it takes from the eastern suberbs to the western ones by train. Just change at dadar where the train frequency is high so your not left waiting around. Your just saving the time of hmm about 5-6 stations which is like 10 min.

Do we really need stations at subhash nagar? a place which is less and a km from ghatkopar station?

[Advait]

Originally Posted by IchimaruGin1

Disgree on the number of stations etc. The name says mass RAPID transit. 11.4 km in 21 minutes means

km/time in hours= speed

11.4/ (21/60)= about 32 km per hour speed or for our non metric friends 20miles an hour.

Thats really slow guys. Tell me whats a point of a top notch rolling stock if you want to make them ply so slowly? Might as well buy a dirst cheap rolling stock

You are talking about average speed being lower than maximum speed. Isn't that true even for a bullet train?
If average speed is too low compared to maximum speed it is possible for a slower rolling stock to give same average speed, in this case 32km/hr.

Those guys in metro would be doing their mechanics problems right. BTW it is a chinese rolling stock. The cost would be the least anyways.

Success of a public transport depends on how many people it is able to cater to numerically and accross the geography. This is an optimization problem. But 1 km is normal separation for metro stations. Have seen it elsewhere.

[Bombay Boy]

rather i get stations closer to where i need to get off than save 2-3 minutes on a 21 minute journey. number of stations on a 11 km stretch does not really make a huge difference to overall time savings, unless you have only 2-3 stations. considering its a city metro system and not an inter-city train service i would rather deal with less walking to and from the station than miniscule savings in time

[shanware]

ditto that

[Kewl Batty]

No Metro in Navi Mumbai, CR to continue with suburban rly plan

Mumbai The first Metro project of Navi Mumbai hit a roadblock, long before the work has begun. The City and Industrial Development Corporation (CIDCO), which is supposed to carry out the work, has decided to drop the plan for Nerul-Seawoods-Uran Metro corridor, according to sources. Instead, the Central Railway (CR) will resume the work on the suburban railway system on this section.

“As of now, we have decided to go ahead with the suburban railway system on this section,” said B B Mehta, additional chief engineer (railway projects), CIDCO. “In future, if the need arises, we would construct Metro also on this section,” he added.

Before CIDCO opted for the Metro, the original plan was a Rs 495-crore Belapur-Seawood-Uran double railway line, approved in 1996-97, for which CIDCO was supposed to pay Rs 331 crore and Central Railway Rs 163 crore.

The project took time to materialise and the cost spiralled to Rs 1,480 crore, leading to CIDCO looking for an alternative. The Metro was to have a station at the proposed Navi Mumbai airport.

However, the railways by then had already invested Rs 50 crore and CIDCO Rs 75 crore on the project. Three Road over Bridges (ROBs), 15 road underpasses, the bridge over the Ulve creek, four major bridges and 73 minor bridges had been constructed.

On July 18, Newsline had reported that CIDCO is reconsidering its decision on constructing a Metro rail on the Nerul- Seawoods- Uran corridor. The union cabinet committee on infrastructure in its meeting in August had also discussed the project. After a series of meetings with the state government and Indian Railway, “the CIDCO has agreed to withdraw the letter in which they had asked the railways to stop all the work on the project,” the cabinet committee stated.

Sources said the railways had to use arm-twisting tactics to bring the project back on track. “The state government had backed off from the existing project and it wanted to include the plan for 12-car rakes on harbour line in MUTP Phase II,” said a railway official. Though a letter from Chief Minister Ashok Chavan had urged the railways to include the plan in MUTP Phase II, the railways did not pay heed to him.

The CIDCO would now be spending Rs 977 crore on the project. “Even the railways have agreed to pay Rs 488 crore. So we have decided to go ahead with the suburban railway system on this route,” Mehta added.

[bhargavsura]

Originally Posted by IchimaruGin1

All points noted and firstly thanks for the replies.

I agree with shanware sir and bhargav sir have provided about ghatkopar. I did not know that.

But the point about taking connects at from the airport is not at all optimum as I assume many travellers will have some form of light suitcases and bags with them. The only option for the moment is a taxi ride.

They are coming up with a Delhi Metro Express line which connects to the airport. I am pretty sure if they come up with something like in Mumbai, they will follow the same steps as of Delhi and moreover, it will be easier and convenient.

Disgree on the number of stations etc. The name says mass RAPID transit. 11.4 km in 21 minutes means

km/time in hours= speed

11.4/ (21/60)= about 32 km per hour speed or for our non metric friends 20miles an hour.

Thats really slow guys. Tell me whats a point of a top notch rolling stock if you want to make them ply so slowly? Might as well buy a dirst cheap rolling stock

Ichi Boss,

You also forgot the time to slow down when the train is approaching the station and when the train is picking up the speed from the station. In addition to this, the time when the train is halting at the station. So don't worry man, the train is going to travel at a good speed. Regarding the number of stations, it's just for the convenience of the people so that they don't have to travel 2 km in rickshaw and then take the metro and then get stuck in the traffic which is a common senario in the city.

[IchimaruGin1]

all points are noted.

thanks for your replies.