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Old January 4th, 2011, 10:59 PM   #1981
yoladeuche
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
Nono, just go ahead, I bet the rest of Europe doesn't mind paying for it.
By "we" I meant "the basques", and if you knew anything about the different fiscal regulations in Spain... oh, nevermind, go ahead.
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Old January 4th, 2011, 11:02 PM   #1982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Green signs are used in the Barcelona region and were used on the Vía Rápida.
Thank you!
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Old January 4th, 2011, 11:11 PM   #1983
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Originally Posted by Cicerón View Post
Sure, but nowadays "going ahead" wouldn't imply "Europe paying for it".
Besides that, Spain yearly budget expenditure is half a billion... are EUrocrats using american billions in their documents now?
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Old January 5th, 2011, 01:22 AM   #1984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNGL View Post
E01 is signed to all three directions. However, the only official one is the one going to Corunna. E07 is only to Zaragoza, but they have signed down to kmpost 251 of A-23, like French, that have signed E07 on A65 but is not part of it. Euroroutes through Madrid go on the East M-40. However, the E901 only starts at the A-3/M-40 interchange. About E05 and E80, I believe they go now on the AP-1, which have been signed on the 2nd San Sebastián Bypass with AP-8, but neither on Elgoibar-Lasarte nor Pasaia-French border sections. The N-I is going to be renumbered A-1. At least in Álava (Where I even saw a kmpost!), don't know in Guipúzcoa... Remember to put that on the Highway Browser
About E90 in Barcelona, it ends at exit 21 of B-10 (at the side of the Ferry terminal) and jumps to Mazzara del Vallo in Italy.
In those cases where I presented two options for the routings based on signs, how did you decide that one of them is the correct one and the other isn't? Does the Fomento state their chosen routings anywhere on the web?

Both the northward and southward extensions of E-7 beyond its official definition seem reasonable.

The one I forgot was E-804 following AP-68 but ending at A-1/N-I instead of at AP-8 in Bilboa. Why do all AP-68 signs show E-5 and sometimes E-80 north of A-1? (Was Spain thinking of changing all its E routes to E-5/E-80?)
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Old January 5th, 2011, 10:01 AM   #1985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
Nono, just go ahead, I bet the rest of Europe doesn't mind paying for it.
You probably use Spanish motorways when you are vacationing in Spain. So don't complain.
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Old January 17th, 2011, 10:47 PM   #1986
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A time-lapsed drive from Corunna to Ferrol. Includes a 360º camera turn :
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Old January 20th, 2011, 09:39 AM   #1987
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hi !

did anybody nows anythinks about the new part or A-7 (Almunecar - Motril -> OpenstreetMap: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?way=80390652)?

My interesst is approxima in which parts are tunnel and bridges ??

reagards Jan :-)
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Old January 20th, 2011, 09:49 AM   #1988
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hi !

did anybody know exaktly if A-7 will be open till Velilla-Taramay (http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=36...node=487081167) ??

and did anybody had some photos of signs or a video (km305 -> Velilla-Taramay) ??

regards Jan :-)
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Old January 21st, 2011, 01:21 PM   #1989
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hey!
can anybody tell me why there is a parallel toll-AP-46 to exisiting A-45 spreading from Malaga to the north? Even if A-45 might be substandard, is there so much and such substantial traffic that a second high-class alternative is needed. Who pays all those double and triple parallel APs an A's in Spain???
I am really a road enthousiast but..... and France seems to join the path! (Montpellier, Reims...)...
Not to mention some of the "R"s around Madrid which are sometimes really senseless, destroying unbuilt land, creating even more noise and last but not least, even more congestion than before at the merging points with the existing toll-free parallel autoroutes.... is it really impossible to upgrade the existing routes???
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Old January 21st, 2011, 08:33 PM   #1990
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Everything else being equal, you get a more resilient system if you have 3 2x2 highways than 1 2x6 highway.
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Old January 21st, 2011, 11:16 PM   #1991
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Most of these twin motorways are quite empty, especially the tolled one, ranging from 2.000 vehicles per day of part of the AP-7 to 6.000 of the AP-36.
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Old January 21st, 2011, 11:31 PM   #1992
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They were built for summer peaks. Every summer weekend Madrid rushes towards the coast around Valencia / Alicante and back. Otherwise there is almost no traffic indeed.

You gotta keep in mind that motorway construction in these areas of Spain is very cheap, often not exceeding € 5 million per kilometer, hence they are easily economically justified, even at very low traffic volumes.
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Old January 21st, 2011, 11:45 PM   #1993
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For someone maybe yes, but for the AP-7 Cartagena-Almeria, I doubt: only 2.000 vehicles, and some tunnels and viaducts. Not many anyway.
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Old January 21st, 2011, 11:48 PM   #1994
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I'd call it advance planning: built BEFORE there is traffic. Thus, you can spark development along the route over 10-20 years.
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Old January 22nd, 2011, 12:09 AM   #1995
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Actually I do not understand the extremely low traffic count of 2.000 vehicles per day on AP-7 between Cartagena and Vera. Sure, the competition from toll-free A-7 and A-92 is present, but 2.000 is extremely low. Maybe the tolls are too high. Or this one was built exclusively for summer peaks as well.
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Old January 22nd, 2011, 12:09 AM   #1996
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@Suburbanist: your concept about what and where a government should invest is very strange (without offence )

@ChrisZwolle: I used that motorway one day in August 2009: I crossed a car every 5 minutes or so.
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Old January 22nd, 2011, 01:15 PM   #1997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Actually I do not understand the extremely low traffic count of 2.000 vehicles per day on AP-7 between Cartagena and Vera. Sure, the competition from toll-free A-7 and A-92 is present, but 2.000 is extremely low. Maybe the tolls are too high. Or this one was built exclusively for summer peaks as well.
In Spain was built some years ago a lot of toll highways without sense. Some of this have not enough traffic and are economically unviable

http://www.expansion.com/2010/02/01/...265063881.html

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/empre...lpnegemp_1/Tes

http://www.cincodias.com/articulo/em...21cdscdiemp_8/
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Old January 22nd, 2011, 01:39 PM   #1998
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I asked because 1730 casualties seem a low figure. Italy, with 1.5 times Spain's population (and fewer roads due to being smaller) had 2521 deaths in 2009 (I don't know the figures for 2010, but projections made in September foresaw a slight increase).

EDIT: Figures for 2010 just came out, there were 2444 deaths on the roads (-3% with respect to 2009).

Italy hasn't got 1.5 of the population.

Italy has about 60 million people and Spain 47 million


23,5 + 47 = 70,5 million (that would be having 1.5 times spanish population)

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Old January 22nd, 2011, 01:44 PM   #1999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frozen View Post
Italy hasn't got 1.5 of the population.

Italy has about 60 million people and Spain 47 million


23,5 + 47 = 70,5 million (that would be having 1.5 times spanish population)

Sheesh, more or less.

I'm an astronomer, and we think in terms of orders of magnitude. For us, from 1 to 10 it's all more or less the same...
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Old January 22nd, 2011, 06:11 PM   #2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arriaca View Post
In Spain was built some years ago a lot of toll highways without sense. Some of this have not enough traffic and are economically unviable

http://www.expansion.com/2010/02/01/...265063881.html

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/empre...lpnegemp_1/Tes

http://www.cincodias.com/articulo/em...21cdscdiemp_8/

thanx fror the articles, that was exactly I was searching for. Really sad stories, but I really wonder how naive government and road concessionaires were planning those virtually unnecessary and UNATTRACTIVE autopistas - how can one think that if you have a parallel toll-free road which is still manageable in terms of congestion, the new road would be cost-efficient then....
Extremely sad because thats exactly what makes traffic planning and predictions untrustworthy in the eyes of the public and prevents other much more needed and reasonable projects to be realized because of public resistance.
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