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Old January 24th, 2011, 03:06 AM   #2001
OriK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lambersart2005 View Post
thanx fror the articles, that was exactly I was searching for. Really sad stories, but I really wonder how naive government and road concessionaires were planning those virtually unnecessary and UNATTRACTIVE autopistas - how can one think that if you have a parallel toll-free road which is still manageable in terms of congestion, the new road would be cost-efficient then....
Extremely sad because thats exactly what makes traffic planning and predictions untrustworthy in the eyes of the public and prevents other much more needed and reasonable projects to be realized because of public resistance.
I live in a town at 40~50km of my university so I've to drive there everyday... I've 2 (motorway) options, the free motorway and the tolled one and the free one is usually crowded and the tolled one is always empty...

The reason is that the tolls in Spain are quite expensive!... If I want to use the toll motorway I'd have to pay 4.10€/5.10€ (depending on the exit, in the "4.10" one I have to wait a queue of 5/10 mins because there is a traffic light in that city entrance) x 2 = 8.20/9.20€ (no traffic light coming back ) ... EACH DAY!! now I'm paying ~6€ of diesel each day I go to the university... I CAN'T PAY 14€ EVERYDAY FOR GOING TO CLASS! (Or 10€ if i only use the toll motorway in one-way).
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Old February 14th, 2011, 04:51 PM   #2002
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Here is a road in the Pyrenees. Believe or not, this is a NATIONAL road!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
N-260 between Sarvisé and Fiscal here in Huesca province. This section will be replaced, but only God knows when. Maybe the 30th of current month...
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Old February 14th, 2011, 05:38 PM   #2003
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That is quite a difference from N-260 further east, south of Andorra...
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Old February 14th, 2011, 11:31 PM   #2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNGL View Post
Here is a road in the Pyrenees. Believe or not, this is a NATIONAL road!!!


N-260 between Sarvisé and Fiscal here in Huesca province. This section will be replaced, but only God knows when. Maybe the 30th of current month...
In Spain I do find that surprising, but if it were Portugal... I'm sure you get the idea.

Spain's national route network is so so so so so so much better. I prefer Portuguese motorways though (much better service stations), but the difference isn't as big.
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Old February 15th, 2011, 04:18 PM   #2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
That is quite a difference from N-260 further east, south of Andorra...
Well, just a bit East of that photo, more or less on a gorge, the road suddenly widens and it's really better than this section. It continues to Campo (Literally: field) where it gets again as bad as this section.
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Old February 15th, 2011, 06:50 PM   #2006
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Oh yeah, the N-260 in Huesca

The funny thing is that there is a new road being built to avoid that section, but the works were stopped due to budget cuts last year. Fortunately the Ministry of public works says it is now determined to improve the road.

Last news released by the Ministry:

Refurbishment of the section Balupor-Fiscal ("Acondicionamiento" means widening, improving curves, etc).


Current status


The dashed red line is the new N-260 U/C. The route can be seen from above, but there is no asphalt. Even a 3 km long tunnel is already finished, but the road is not opened to traffic yet (even though Google Maps says it is). Here is the eastern half:


As seen from the ground:


Another press release from the Ministry of public works: New asphalt for these 2 stretches:


And another acondicionamiento, this time for the stretch Congosto del Ventamillo-Campo: http://www.fomento.es/MFOM/LANG_CAST.../110117-03.htm


So basically, from West to East:

-Sabiñánigo-Fiscal: New road U/C
-Fiscal-Balupor: Project has just started
-Balupor-Aínsa: Finished, 100 km/h except in the villages of Boltaña and Aínsa.
-Aínsa-Campo: Finished in 2005, 100 km/h
-Campo-Castejón de Sos (Congosto del Ventamillo): Project has just started. The new road will have 4 tunnels and will be limited to 80 km/h.


Another shitty national road is the N-621 (León-Santader), from the touristic village of Potes to 27 km further to the South:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carretero View Post
Ilustremos





Así durante 20 km.
Fortunately the refurbishment works started in 2008 so it must be almost finished now.

If you are interested, there's a thread about this in the Spanish forum: Las peores carreteras nacionales

And finally, some pictures of the new A-2 in Torrejón de Ardoz. It will be 2+3+3+2.





Source & more pictures: http://torrejoneando.blogspot.com/20...-la-ii_13.html

IIRC all the new A-2 (from Madrid to Alfajarín, some km east of Zaragoza) should be finished by the end of this summer.
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Old February 16th, 2011, 06:09 PM   #2007
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It was some 15 years ago when the N-260 was established as a national road. Previously, it was a set of local and regional roads, for local traffic mainly; so the Spanish Government hasn't upgrade them until they got national road status; before, it was the regional and provincial governments' task. The process is slow, but the whole N-260 at Huesca province has been / is being refurbished.

Same with N-621; the Goverment overtook its management just 15 years ago from regional and local governments.
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Old February 16th, 2011, 09:43 PM   #2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicerón View Post
Another shitty national road is the N-621 (León-Santader), from the touristic village of Potes to 27 km further to the South:
My uncle still remembers when the paved roads ended approximately around Murcia and then you had to use dirt roads to reach Almeria.
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Old February 17th, 2011, 03:19 AM   #2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNGL View Post
Here is a road in the Pyrenees. Believe or not, this is a NATIONAL road!!!


N-260 between Sarvisé and Fiscal here in Huesca province. This section will be replaced, but only God knows when. Maybe the 30th of current month...

hahaha I have been driving there. the section between Boltaña and Sarvise is all but monotonous


what about n-260 at Congosto del Ventamillo?¿?¿?(the entry to Benasque Valley)












Last edited by willo; February 17th, 2011 at 03:28 AM.
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Old February 17th, 2011, 11:23 AM   #2010
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That's simply amazing! It looks like a couple of roads I know in Italy... for instance the SR479 of the Sagittario river near Anversa degli Abruzzi, or a short section of SP79 Gola della Rossa near Serra San Quirico (but the latter has been closed for motorized vehicles)...

I'm planning a trip to Spain next September and I hope I'll have the chance to drive on this spectacular road!
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Old February 17th, 2011, 05:53 PM   #2011
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if you like these kind of roads there are some in the Pyrinees (well, there're roads like these in other remotes places of Spain,like the interior zone of Galicia).

I.e two bad photos i took of A-2609 From Salinas to Chistau Valley



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Old February 17th, 2011, 06:26 PM   #2012
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I biked on that road In 2005 I stayed at the campsite in Saravillo, along A-2609. There are more magnificent roads in that area, for instance through the Anisclo Canyon
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Old February 17th, 2011, 06:55 PM   #2013
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It looks like one road under heavy rebuild on Alava
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Old February 17th, 2011, 09:26 PM   #2014
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Minor information: after 3 long years the polemic 80 km/h speed limit enforced on every motorway around the Barcelona metropolitan area it's finally over. This week old (pre-2008) speed limits on each motorway are back, which means, 100 km/h or 120 km/h depending on motorway and on the section.

The new catalan goverment (center-right / moderate separatist) also talked about being interest on raising to 130 km/h the speed limit on certain motorways such as the AP-2 . However also explained that in order to do that it's necesary to change in the traffic law of the spanish central goverment.
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Last edited by MrAkumana; February 17th, 2011 at 09:38 PM. Reason: typo
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Old February 18th, 2011, 12:44 AM   #2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrAkumana View Post
The new catalan goverment (center-right / moderate separatist) also talked about being interest on raising to 130 km/h the speed limit on certain motorways such as the AP-2 . However also explained that in order to do that it's necesary to change in the traffic law of the spanish central goverment.
Only 130? I would say 140, after all many people already drive at that speed on some highways. For instance on the AP-68 if you drive at 120 km/h everybody passes you, or the AP-1 in the Basque country... obviously that speed limit should be raised only in well-built motorways such as the ones I mentioned above, plus others that come to my mind (AP-41, AP-36, R-'s in Madrid, A-231...)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aokromes View Post
It looks like one road under heavy rebuild on Alava
A-3314?

The most important refurbishment we have had lately in my region (La Rioja) was the LR-113, a road with hundreds of bends that runs through a valley. The works started in 1999 and there are still 18 km pending to be refurbished, of a total of 78. Before & after (source):

-

It's not the same point, but you can get an idea of its state before the works.



PS: I've found even worse comparatives :

LR-461:
-

LR-403:
-
-
-

LR-466:
-
-
-


All photos from www.larioja.org/carreteras
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Old February 25th, 2011, 07:51 PM   #2016
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Spanish government reduces speed limits on Autovías and Autopistas to 110 km/h to reduce fuel consumption. It is "temporary"

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/espan...pepunac_21/Tes
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Old February 25th, 2011, 08:24 PM   #2017
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The Spanish government should read and learn:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Maximum_Speed_Law

In 1974, a maximum speed limit of 90 km/h was introduced in the entire United States. Fuel savings were between 0.5 and 1%. The 15 and 11% fuel savings stated in El País seems highly unrealistic. First of all, few people would obey this 10 km/h lower limit, I really doubt if the V85 value would fall by any significant numbers (5 km/h or more). Second, most fuel is consumed by trucks, whose speed limit remains the same. Thirdly, Spanish 120 km/h roads have mostly low traffic volumes. Most fuel is burnt inside urban areas where speed limits are lower and more traffic is on fuel-inefficient urban arterials.

No need to reduce the speed limit by 10 km/h on rural motorways to save fuel.
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Old February 25th, 2011, 09:50 PM   #2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The Spanish government should read and learn:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Maximum_Speed_Law

In 1974, a maximum speed limit of 90 km/h was introduced in the entire United States. Fuel savings were between 0.5 and 1%. The 15 and 11% fuel savings stated in El País seems highly unrealistic. First of all, few people would obey this 10 km/h lower limit, I really doubt if the V85 value would fall by any significant numbers (5 km/h or more). Second, most fuel is consumed by trucks, whose speed limit remains the same. Thirdly, Spanish 120 km/h roads have mostly low traffic volumes. Most fuel is burnt inside urban areas where speed limits are lower and more traffic is on fuel-inefficient urban arterials.

No need to reduce the speed limit by 10 km/h on rural motorways to save fuel.
The manual for my car does say that driving at 65mph uses 15% more fuel that at 55mph. I haven't driven it enough to notice if this difference is realistic but driving at 70 or 75mph does seem that it could plausibly use that much more fuel. (The speed limit for rural Interstate highways was recently increased from 65mph or 105 km/hr to 70/113)
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Old February 25th, 2011, 10:21 PM   #2019
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On an individual basis, it may indeed reduce fuel consumption by 10 - 15%. However, like I pointed out, there are more factors to include in this little calculation, for example (non)-compliance, truck fuel consumption and the amount of traffic not affected by this decrease in speed limit. Overall it has very little noticeable effect to the point it becomes one of those symbolic measures.
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Old February 25th, 2011, 10:59 PM   #2020
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This is quite crazy and no sense, it sound more like Zapatero taking revenge on the new Catalonia goverment; that just returned speed limits on motorways of the Barcelona area to what they were before the Socialist Party (to which Zapatero belong), put a ridiculous 80km/h motorway speed limit 3 years ago while ruling Catalonia for the first time...
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