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Old April 9th, 2011, 06:24 PM   #2041
geogregor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
¡Muchísimas gracias!

After asking my question I searched Google and found a travel bookstore in Madrid and Barcelona called Altaïr, which led me to something called El Guión, by a publisher called Anaya, and an atlas by GeoPlaneta. But I can't find a place to sample the cartography. (Stanfords Maps in London, whose website will show samples for most things, doesn't carry these).
I work for Stanfords
I can try to check if we can get them

Quote:
(To Suburbanist: I'm familiar with Michelin - they're great in France and the Benelux - but I'm interested in something more detailed than what they do for Spain. Thanks for your reply though.)
Michelin does few series for Spain. I was checking some roads in Galicia and Asturias.
So there is Michelin map of Spain updated every year:
http://www.stanfords.co.uk/stock/spa...l-2011-193087/

Then there is regional map of Galicia:
http://www.stanfords.co.uk/stock/galicia-115784/

And finaly there is most detailed map of Galician coast:
http://www.stanfords.co.uk/stock/san...alicia-174423/
By the way there is mistake on our website, the scale should be 1:150.000 have to report it to our web team

I looked at all of them and there seems to be lack of consistency in showing roads under construction. That's why I am confused what is finished what isn't. There are few excellent German mapmakers but their maps of Spain looks quite outdated.
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Old April 9th, 2011, 07:18 PM   #2042
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You work for Stanfords? Cool!

I'd forgotten about the regionals, although I guess it's the same cartography as the road atlas, and I didn't know there were so many Zoom titles for Spain. I think what's available from Michelin varies from one country to the next (their Benelux road atlas, I have to order from Europe; their Belgian city maps weren't available from any on-line retailer in France when I bought them a couple of years ago; can't remember how I found out they existed, actually....)

If I'm going to spend money on a road atlas for a country that I'm not likely to be in in the near future, I'm using it for reference and I like detail. I'm the type of geography geek who, if I'm watching Top Gear or the Tour de France and see a sign, will pause the TV and break out the map and figure out exactly where they are. Which entails the level of detail you'll see on an A-Z or Michelin's road atlas of France. I had an atlas of Spain and Portugal that I lost track of in a messy move, but which would be ten years old anyway at this point; I can't remember who published it and it may have been one of those things where someone like Hallwag sells under their cover outside Spain something actually published by someone in Spain. But I do remember it was much more generous with small villages than Michelin's atlas is. Now that it's spring and I can get to, say, the Globe Corner Bookstore in Boston or Ulysse in Montreal (and I've had an unexpected small windfall from an aunt who died) I'll have to do some shopping.

Sorry - didn't mean to take over this thread to talk maps.
Thanks again to Cicerón and Treichard for the tips.
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Old April 9th, 2011, 07:39 PM   #2043
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
I'm the type of geography geek who, if I'm watching Top Gear or the Tour de France and see a sign, will pause the TV and break out the map and figure out exactly where they are.
You mean the lame type that needs to pause it, rather than being able to do it on the fly
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Old April 9th, 2011, 07:46 PM   #2044
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Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
You mean the lame type that needs to pause it, rather than being able to do it on the fly
If I don't pause it, I risk missing the next sign. :-P
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Old April 11th, 2011, 06:18 PM   #2045
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I do that sort of stuff when watching American programmes
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Old April 12th, 2011, 01:22 AM   #2046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielFigFoz View Post
I do that sort of stuff when watching American programmes
I usually don't need a map, my knowledge of American geography is quite good

Going back to Spanish roads.
Did government canceled many projects due to financial situation? Michelin maps show quite few projects under construction. For example extensions of AG55 and AG56 in Galicia. They look like roads to nowhere (no offense). I know that those roads are run by the government of Galicia. Going ahead on canceled?
Similar situation with extension of EXA1 towards Portuguese border in Extremadura. Looks like there are only villages on its way. Is this one going ahead? It's marked as under construction in Michelin Road Atlas of Spain and Portugal for 2011.

The last question is about A8. I'm thinking about visiting north of Spain sometime in September. I see some parts still under construction. I'm particularly interested in route from Gijon to A Coruna. Is it going to be finished by then?

Last edited by geogregor; April 12th, 2011 at 01:42 AM.
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Old April 12th, 2011, 01:06 PM   #2047
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Where can I find a map of current network (expressways and motorways)?
I've read that spanish network is the biggest in Europe now! Congrats!
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Old April 12th, 2011, 04:09 PM   #2048
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Try http://www.openstreetmap.org, they are always up to date. The blue lines are the motorways.

The A-22 missing link near Lascellas (Huesca) is opening next week from now! .

Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
I usually don't need a map, my knowledge of American geography is quite good

Going back to Spanish roads.
Did government canceled many projects due to financial situation? Michelin maps show quite few projects under construction. For example extensions of AG55 and AG56 in Galicia. They look like roads to nowhere (no offense). I know that those roads are run by the government of Galicia. Going ahead on canceled?
Similar situation with extension of EXA1 towards Portuguese border in Extremadura. Looks like there are only villages on its way. Is this one going ahead? It's marked as under construction in Michelin Road Atlas of Spain and Portugal for 2011.

The last question is about A8. I'm thinking about visiting north of Spain sometime in September. I see some parts still under construction. I'm particularly interested in route from Gijon to A Coruna. Is it going to be finished by then?
I know that AG-55 will be extended to Corcubión, near the "World's end" (Fisterra), and AG-56 to Noia. Last one is U/C, and there's already one carriageway open. About the other, don't know...
The EX-A1 is opened to Galisteo (West of Plasencia) and it's U/C up to Moraleja near the Portuguese border.
Finally, about the E70, it won't be completed until next year. Touzas-Vilalba will open in late May.

BTW, E70 follows A-8, so don't worry. I decided to use the Euronumbers instead of national ones.
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Last edited by CNGL; April 12th, 2011 at 04:17 PM.
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Old April 13th, 2011, 01:59 AM   #2049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNGL View Post
Try http://www.openstreetmap.org, they are always up to date. The blue lines are the motorways.
Openstreet is great but not all the "under construction" projects will be there, it depends from the access to the building site.


Quote:
I know that AG-55 will be extended to Corcubión, near the "World's end" (Fisterra), and AG-56 to Noia. Last one is U/C, and there's already one carriageway open. About the other, don't know...
Those projects really puzzle me? What's their purpose? Looks like Cabo Fisterra might be important tourist destination, but not "that" important. Does anyone have results of traffic count on roads which those freeways will replace?
On map AG55 looks interesting, I hope it's going ahead. Any updates on that?


Quote:
The EX-A1 is opened to Galisteo (West of Plasencia) and it's U/C up to Moraleja near the Portuguese border.
Another mysterious project for me. Moraleja on map looks like in middle of nowhere. Does it really need freeway access? Again, I would love to see traffic counts.
I still hope it's progressing well as I love those deserted roads, far from the urban centers.

Quote:
Finally, about the E70, it won't be completed until next year. Touzas-Vilalba will open in late May.

BTW, E70 follows A-8, so don't worry. I decided to use the Euronumbers instead of national ones.
Is Touzas - Vilalba the only missing bit? On Michelin maps it's shown as finished but there are some other gaps.
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Old April 13th, 2011, 04:32 PM   #2050
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No, there are other missing sections: Muros de Nalón-Las Dueñas (Which includes a 110 meter tall bridge), Otur-Villapedre, Navia-Tapia de Casariego (Expected to open later this year), and the three sections from Lourenzá to Careira (Lourenzá-Mondoñedo to open in December).

The A-22 missing link near Lascellas will open next Wednesday! 4 km to make a 68 km long stretch of coutinuous motorway, never seen in Huesca province! That section had troubles with soil foundation, it was originally planned for open in 2009.
From Binéfar to the border between Aragon and Catalonia will open in May, then Binéfar bypass will open in June or July and the Almacelles one in December, leaving only Huesca-Siétamo to be built.It had planning troubles, so the last 11 kilometers will be road until at least 2015. Long live the speed camera of the Estrecho Quinto!
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Old April 13th, 2011, 09:12 PM   #2051
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
Another mysterious project for me. Moraleja on map looks like in middle of nowhere. Does it really need freeway access? Again, I would love to see traffic counts.
I still hope it's progressing well as I love those deserted roads, far from the urban centers.
The idea is to link the EX-A1 to the portuguese motorway IC31, linking the spanish border to the A23 next to Castelo Branco. When completed this will be the shortest connection between Lisbon and Madrid by motorway. However, if in the Spanish side there are only 20 km which are not yet being built, in the Portuguese side nothing is done...
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Old April 13th, 2011, 10:18 PM   #2052
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The idea is to link the EX-A1 to the portuguese motorway IC31, linking the spanish border to the A23 next to Castelo Branco. When completed this will be the shortest connection between Lisbon and Madrid by motorway. However, if in the Spanish side there are only 20 km which are not yet being built, in the Portuguese side nothing is done...
So is EX-A1 under construction at the moment? Where can I get more info or some pictures?

The same about roads are asked about in Galicia? Are they covered in spanish forum? I don't speak Spanish but might look for some pictures.
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Old April 14th, 2011, 12:38 PM   #2053
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You can check the Spanish forum; especially the regional sections here and here. You may ask for info there.
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Old April 16th, 2011, 10:36 PM   #2054
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNGL View Post
The A-22 missing link near Lascellas will open next Wednesday! 4 km to make a 68 km long stretch of coutinuous motorway, never seen in Huesca province! That section had troubles with soil foundation, it was originally planned for open in 2009.
From Binéfar to the border between Aragon and Catalonia will open in May, then Binéfar bypass will open in June or July and the Almacelles one in December, leaving only Huesca-Siétamo to be built.It had planning troubles, so the last 11 kilometers will be road until at least 2015. Long live the speed camera of the Estrecho Quinto!
Correction: It was opened yesterday .
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Old April 19th, 2011, 01:36 PM   #2055
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http://www.europapress.es/extremadur...419115724.html

10 kilometers of EX-A1 will open at 1300 hrs today between Galisteo en El Batán, west of Plasencia. The cost is only € 29 million, or € 2.9 million per kilometer.
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Old April 21st, 2011, 06:04 PM   #2056
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Still too much for such a low forecasted traffic IMO. The cost would be significantly reduced by simply decreasing the width of the median from 10 m to 3 or 2 m ("mediana estricta") or even less (a simple New Jersey barrier).

Most of the autopistas/autovías are designed with a 10 m wide median to leave enough space for a future widening to 2x3 unless the forecasted traffic is too low, but the highway design rules are too generous. Many of these new highways will never reach a traffic level high enough to need 3 lanes per direction.
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Old April 21st, 2011, 06:07 PM   #2057
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€ 2.9 million per kilometer is extremely cheap, in the Netherlands you can't build a 2-lane road for that kind of money.
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Old April 21st, 2011, 06:33 PM   #2058
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But imagine the money that could be saved on bridges, underpasses, expropiation of private properties and land-moving if the median was only 2 m wide. I'm not talking about worse alingment or desing, it's only the median. The money would be spent more efficiently. This is especially important in Extremadura, which is the poorest Spanish region and the money to build the EX-A1 has come from EU funds, but it should be applied in the whole country.

For instance, in France, from what I have seen, new Autoroutes (A75) are built with only a barrier as a median.
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Old April 21st, 2011, 10:06 PM   #2059
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Do it the swedish way, new motorways are usually only 18.5 metres wide in total, 21.5 metres if AADT is higher.
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Old April 21st, 2011, 11:14 PM   #2060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicerón View Post
But imagine the money that could be saved on bridges, underpasses, expropiation of private properties and land-moving if the median was only 2 m wide. I'm not talking about worse alingment or desing, it's only the median. The money would be spent more efficiently. This is especially important in Extremadura, which is the poorest Spanish region and the money to build the EX-A1 has come from EU funds, but it should be applied in the whole country.

For instance, in France, from what I have seen, new Autoroutes (A75) are built with only a barrier as a median.
I'm unconvinced that wide medians are only created to leave room for future widening. One often sees wide medians where freeways are built in rural and sparsely populated regions of different countries (the USA and South Africa are good examples) and I do not believe this can just be to allow for widening.

Perhaps where land is plentiful and cheap, it is cheaper to leave a wide median than to construct and maintain crash barriers?
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