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Old May 5th, 2011, 03:30 PM   #2081
CNGL
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We are very scientific . The "dirección" is the road that goes between A and B, and the "sentido" is in which part of the road are the things: A-bound or B-bound.

I like the E90 widening works in Zaragoza, they are spectacular. I saw them in Easter. At some points they are widening the motorway to 2+3+3+2, from N-125 to E804 and in the N-330 interchange. But the rebuilding of E90 is a headache too. They have diverted all traffic to one carriageway between Épila and La Muela, 11 kilometers of what I would call N-II! (Instead of A-2, of course)
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Old May 5th, 2011, 05:28 PM   #2082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxx☢Power View Post
What determines the dirección?
Mmh, I'm not sure, in physics it's maybe an angle? Dirección is a straight line and all lines that are parallel to it.


Vectors A and B have the same dirección but opposite sentidos.



Regarding roads, dirección is (formally speaking) the route of a road, path, highway, etc. Changing dirección means taking a different road, changing sentido means making a U-turn. However, colloquially speaking both terms are used when saying the point you are going to, e.g. carretera N-120 dirección Burgos or carretera N-120 dirección Logroño, maybe because the verb dirigirse means "to go to". The right word would be sentido, though. However if you are on a roundabout, you can say "take the exit dirección Burgos", because you are taking a different road


Traffic authorities love to play with such confusing terms in driving tests, for example:

Q1) In view of this sign, what can you do?
[IMG]http://i52.************/oqxf2v.png[/IMG]
A) Change dirección
B) Change sentido
C) Neither

Q2) In view of this sign, what can you do?

A) Change dirección
B) Change sentido
C) Neither


Correct answers are C and A respectively.
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Old May 5th, 2011, 06:54 PM   #2083
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It's the same in Italian, but it's known only to physicists and mathematicians. Although direzione and verso mean exactly what direcciòn and sentido mean in Spanish, in everyday use one uses direzione with the meaning of verso.

For example: I'm travelling on Italian A1 (that defines direzione Milano-Napoli), verso Milano. But I also can say I'm travelling on A1 in direzione Milano. It's a romance languages thing, I think.
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Old May 6th, 2011, 03:25 AM   #2084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
It's the same in Italian, but it's known only to physicists and mathematicians. Although direzione and verso mean exactly what direcciòn and sentido mean in Spanish, in everyday use one uses direzione with the meaning of verso.

For example: I'm travelling on Italian A1 (that defines direzione Milano-Napoli), verso Milano. But I also can say I'm travelling on A1 in direzione Milano. It's a romance languages thing, I think.
In Spain we also use sometimes "dirección" when we mean "sentido" but that's not correct and when we want to be more specific we distinguish between both.

When you hear traffic reports on radio it's common to hear things like:

"Tráfico lento a partir del kilómetro 32 durante 3 kilómetros en sentido creciente de la kilométrica"

which means:

"Slow traffic from km 32 for 3 kms in the way in which the kilometrage increases" or "Slow traffic between km 32 and 35"

When that way leads to a big city, they say, for example "en sentido Madrid" instead of "en sentido creciente de la kilométrica"

Bye^2 :P
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Old May 6th, 2011, 03:19 PM   #2085
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Well I think then that Italian usage is somewhat more relaxed. In radio traffic reports they always say "direzione" meaning "verso" even if it's formally wrong.

Back In Topic now
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Old May 12th, 2011, 06:24 PM   #2086
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I saw the thread titled What is the difference between the different words for high-speed roads? so I decided to explain the differences between Autopista and Autovía.

In Spain we have autopistas and autovías.

-----


There's a lot of confusion between them so I thought I could tell the history behind those words. WARNING: Long post.


Autopistas

Autopista has traditionally been the word used to describe hig-speed roads with separated carriageways and crossings at different level. In 1928, the Spanish Government promoted the projects for three autopistas:

-Madrid-Valencia, closest Mediterranean port to the capital of Spain.
-Madrid-Irún (French border)
-Oviedo-Gijón, in the important mining and industrial region of Asturias. The first city was the center of the railways while the second city had an important port.


Poster announcing the autopista Madrid-Cuenca-Valencia.

Until 1929, 17 different autopistas had been planed. All these new roads were part of Miguel Primo de Rivera's (dictator of Spain) plans to improve the Spanish infrastructures.

But Miguel Primo de Rivera resigned in January 1930 and the Second Spanish Republic was declared on 14th April 1931 and, as a consequence, all those projects were cancelled.

In the 50's, now under Francisco Franco's dictatorship, the Madrid-Barajas airport started to gain some importance, to the extent that the very first motorway open in Spanish territory was the one linking Madrid to Barajas airport, in 1956.

Some years before, in 1953 Spain signed an agreement with the US Government in which Spain ceeded territory to build shared military bases and the US gave money to Spain (remember that Spain never was a part of the Marshall plan). One of those military bases was the one in Torrejón de Ardoz, near Barajas. The autopista linking Madrid and Barajas airport was then extended to the Air Base.

Some more autopistas were built. Here you can see a list of the tolled ones with the day they were approved. This is the 1975 catalogue (by clicking the number you can see the autopista sign, to confirm that they are not autovías, even the non-tolled ones):
Autopistas radiales básicas:
-A-1 Autopista del Norte (now AP-1 Burgos-Miranda, tolled)
-A-2 Autopista del Nordeste (now A-2 Madrid-Torrejón Air Base, not tolled + AP-2 Zaragoza-El Vendrell, tolled)
-A-3 Autopista de Levante (now A-3, a small stretch near Madrid, not tolled)
-A-4 Autopista del Sur (now AP-4, Sevilla-Cádiz, tolled)
-A-5 Autopista de Extremadura (never built)
-A-6 Autopista del Noroeste (now AP-6 Villalba-Adanero)
Autopistas costeras:
-A-7 Autopista del Mediterráneo (now AP-7, tolled)
-A-8 Autopista del Cantábrico (now A-8 Solares-Bilbao, not tolled + AP-8, Bilbao-Behovia, tolled)
-A-9 Autopista del Atlántico (now AP-9 Ferrol-Tuy, tolled)
Autopistas de conexión y ramales:
-A-18 Autopista Barcelona-Tarrasa (now C-58 and C-16)
-A-19 Autopista Barcelona-Massanet (now C-31 and C-32)
-A-37 Autopista Murcia-Cartagena (never built)
-A-49 Autopista Sevilla-Huelva
-A-66 Autopista León-Oviedo (now AP-66 León-Campomanes, tolled + A-66 Campomanes-Gijón, not tolled)
-A-67 Autopista Santander-Torrelavega
-A-68 Autopista Bilbao-Zaragoza (now AP-68, tolled)
Autopistas insulares:
-PM-1 Autopista Palma de Mallorca-Palmanova (now Ma-1)
-PM-7 Autopista Palma de Mallorca-Alcudia por Inca (now Ma-13)
-GC-1 Autopista Las Palmas-Maspalomas
-TF-1 Autopista Santa Cruz de Tenerife-Los Cristianos
-TF-5 Autopista Santa Cruz de Tenerife-La Orotava



Autovías

In 1982, Felipe González's Socialist Party won the elections in Spain. Francisco Franco died in 1975 and the following years had been a difficult transition into democracy. To boost the Economy, the Government decided to improve the main national roads (the six roads going from Madrid to the corners of the country). But there were two problems:

-There was no money.
-Tolled motorways, which were (and are) paid and built by private companies, were not very socialist. Toll are oppressive.

So the Government decided to build a parallel carriageway next to the existing national road, build overpasses etc. And how would they call it? Autopista? No, that cheap solution can't be an autopista, we need a new word: Autovía. And that's how every new free high-speed road in Spain has been called autovía, regardless of its quality. However, that construction method was only used in some roads: Madrid-Burgos (A-1), Madrid-Zaragoza (A-2 except the first section from Madrid to the Air Base in Torrejón de Ardoz) and Madrid-Alicante (A-3 up to Atalaya del Cañavate and A-31). The A-6 Adanero-Benavente, A-5 Madrid-Badajoz and A-2 Igualada-Olesa (near Barcelona) used part of the old national road too when the geometrical features were the ones required for a high-speed road.

Those autovías I mentioned above (A-1, A-2, A-3 and A-31) are currently on important refurbisment. We are now paying the lack of foresight, but it's true that Spain could have not paid completely new motorways back in the 80's.

Of course nowadays there's no difference geometrically-wise between autopistas and autovías.

Last edited by Cicerón; May 12th, 2011 at 06:29 PM.
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Old May 12th, 2011, 06:38 PM   #2087
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Interesting!

http://www.abc.es/agencias/noticia.asp?noticia=814058

16 km of A-22 opened today between Monzón and Almacelles (Northern Spain).
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Old May 12th, 2011, 06:49 PM   #2088
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicerón View Post
Autopistas insulares:
-PM-1 Autopista Palma de Mallorca-Palmanova (now Ma-1)
-PM-7 Autopista Palma de Mallorca-Alcudia por Inca (now Ma-13)

nowadays the palma-palmanova is palma-paguera, and there are 2 more, palma-llucmajor and palma-manacor
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Old May 12th, 2011, 06:51 PM   #2089
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I used the names given in the official 1975 catalogue (?) / list of autopistas. That's why I wrote Massanet instead of Maçanet (official Catalan name) or Tarrasa instead of Terrassa (idem).

Those 2 motorways you mention did not exist back in 1975.
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Old May 12th, 2011, 07:31 PM   #2090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el palmesano View Post
nowadays the palma-palmanova is palma-paguera, and there are 2 more, palma-llucmajor and palma-manacor
I went with bus from Palma to Manacor last year and I am pretty sure it was no Autopista, since some junctions were built as roundabouts instead of interchanges.
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Old May 13th, 2011, 09:31 PM   #2091
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oh!

is true

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma_15

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Old May 14th, 2011, 02:24 PM   #2092
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So I'm just gonna throw it out there and it has probably been said before: the new speed limit SUCKS. Spain is just so big, it takes forever! I've driven on the A1 Burgos - Madrid, Madrid - Burgos and the M30, M40 beltways of Madrid. It's so different from Holland, it's pretty hard to go to where you wanna be. The citycenter traffic is so hectic and stuff!

Now I've driven in 6 different countries and I've had my license for 9 months lol.
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Old May 15th, 2011, 11:02 PM   #2093
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cool map thx
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Old June 3rd, 2011, 11:51 PM   #2094
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Hello, I'm from Spain.

I have got a videos on youtube from spaces in the highways.

The first are this. The entrance in Gijón the last year: http://youtu.be/r0l3a4S8WWY
http://youtu.be/23lgzKepMJs
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 10:40 PM   #2095
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13 kilometers of C-31 along the Costa Brava around Platja d'Aro and Palamós have been widened to 2x2 lanes, and is now of Autovía status.

http://www.abc.es/agencias/noticia.asp?noticia=857276
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 10:57 AM   #2096
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And next week they will complete the C-17 up to Ripoll. They are also building the so called "Eix diagonal" or C-15... I don't understand why they call it the diagonal axis, since it runs North-South (Vertically)... Perhaps because it's position as seen from Barcelona?
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Old June 24th, 2011, 03:58 PM   #2097
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Breaking News: against all odds speed limit will return to 120 km/h on July.
Rumours are that vice-president Rubalcaba and PSOE candidate for 2012 forced the decision

Good news for summer tourist and people living in Spain (althought most of the later never actually respected the 110 km/h speed limit as they knew that radars were not adjusted and there were chances of getting a fine only when driving over 135 km/h)
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Old June 24th, 2011, 04:09 PM   #2098
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So they installed thousands of new 110 km/h signs for just a few months. What an incredible waste of money.
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Old June 24th, 2011, 04:13 PM   #2099
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I was coming here to post that

They only put some stickers. Now they will remove the stickers and voila, the 110 km/h signs become 120 km/h signs again.
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Old June 24th, 2011, 04:31 PM   #2100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNGL View Post
I was coming here to post that

They only put some stickers. Now they will remove the stickers and voila, the 110 km/h signs become 120 km/h signs again.
Actually, it seems the stickers are imposible to remove, so they will put NEW stickers over the 110 Km/h stickers...
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