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Old June 28th, 2011, 05:07 PM   #2141
g.spinoza
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Originally Posted by CNGL View Post
Please don't beat my 4645.5 kilometer mark on Spanish roads! I'm leading right now. But I believe you will make only ~3500 km.
Yes, but I will have driven all of them personally...

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Right now there are roadworks on E90 between Calatayud and Zaragoza, so it's better to go on N-234 to Daroca, then A-1508 to Romanos and get into A-23 there to Zaragoza.
Thanks, I'll write that down so I'll remember... any other help is appreciated!

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What do you mean?
It's about Clinched Higways Mapping project... CNGL seems a little obsessed by it
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Old June 28th, 2011, 05:48 PM   #2142
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I'll take the opportunity to ask you guys some tips about Spanish roads, since as Suburbanist I'm planning my trip to Spain, next September. My plan draft is:

- Follow all the AP-7 from French border to Alicante then A-7/A-91/A-92 to Granada;
- Basically roam Andalucia, with bases in Granada, then Cadiz and then Sevilla, with blitz into Portugal (maybe Faro) and Gibraltar.
- going back through Merida, Madrid, Zaragoza, Lleida, Andorra.

Do you have any advice (roads to avoid due to roadworks or probable tailbacks?)

Thanks!
There are works on the AP-7 in Catalonia to expand it to 2x3: http://www.autopistas.com/autopista-...ang/es/idm/215

If you go from Granada to Cádiz via Málaga you'll find some works on the A-45 due to the construction of the AP-46 and the new bypass of Málaga. Then you can take the AP-7 in Fuengirola. If you choose A-7 instead, you'll find a very substandard autovía up to Marbella. No shoulders, no acceleration/deceleration lanes... On the N-340 near the town of San Pedro de Alcántara, just after Marbella, there are road works due to the construction of a tunnel for the future A-7. The A-7/N-340 from San Pedro de Alcántara to Algeciras is the same kind of road as the Fuengirola-Marbella, you'll even find roundabouts from Estepona to Sotogrande . So if you want a fast drive, just take the AP-7.

Once in Algeciras you can take the autovía A-381 to Jerez or the N-340 to Tarifa, the southernmost point of the Iberian Peninsula. The N-340 is usually more crowded.

From Madrid to Zaragoza there are roadworks on the A-2. You can avoid the stretch from Calatayud to Zaragoza as CNGL said.
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Old June 28th, 2011, 05:58 PM   #2143
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There are works on the AP-7 in Catalonia to expand it to 2x3: http://www.autopistas.com/autopista-...ang/es/idm/215
Thank you, but coming from Italy I think that stretch is almost unavoidable

Quote:
If you go from Granada to Cádiz via Málaga you'll find some works on the A-45 due to the construction of the AP-46 and the new bypass of Málaga. Then you can take the AP-7 in Fuengirola. If you choose A-7 instead, you'll find a very substandard autovía up to Marbella. No shoulders, no acceleration/deceleration lanes... On the N-340 near the town of San Pedro de Alcántara, just after Marbella, there are road works due to the construction of a tunnel for the future A-7. The A-7/N-340 from San Pedro de Alcántara to Algeciras is the same kind of road as the Fuengirola-Marbella, you'll even find roundabouts from Estepona to Sotogrande . So if you want a fast drive, just take the AP-7.
From Granada to Cadiz I was thinking more about taking A-92 and then AP-4 at Sevilla.

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Once in Algeciras you can take the autovía A-381 to Jerez or the N-340 to Tarifa, the southernmost point of the Iberian Peninsula. The N-340 is usually more crowded.
Thank you about this advice... I'd like to take them both. I'm planning to go to Gibraltar while staying in Cadiz, so probabily I will take the A-381 for the journey there and the N-340 for coming back, when one is usually more relaxed and has no tight schedule.

Quote:
From Madrid to Zaragoza there are roadworks on the A-2. You can avoid the stretch from Calatayud to Zaragoza as CNGL said.
Are they really that bad? Chances of getting queues are high?
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Old June 28th, 2011, 06:05 PM   #2144
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Yes, the chances of getting queues there are really really high! (Unless if you go there by night) When I was returning from Guadalajara last easter I got trapped in slow traffic all the way from La Almunia to Zaragoza, as there is only one lane for all traffic.
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Old June 28th, 2011, 06:15 PM   #2145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Thank you, but coming from Italy I think that stretch is almost unavoidable
Yeah, but don't worry, it's no big deal.

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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Are they really that bad? Chances of getting queues are high?
The works are part of the plan for refurbishing the so-called first-generation autovías. I don't know exactly how the things are on the A-2, but the works they are doing on the A-1 (part of the same plan) are a pain in the ass , there are many stretches limited to 80 or even 60 km/h with only one lane per direction... This is a picture of the works on the A-1:



However, the A-2 has less traffic since it's less used for traffic going from Africa to France of vice-versa.

Anyway, you can always go to this page and check "obras" (lower right side):
http://infocar.dgt.es/etraffic/Busca..._buscar=Buscar
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Old June 28th, 2011, 06:18 PM   #2146
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Thanks guys, your infos are really precious!!
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Old June 28th, 2011, 06:22 PM   #2147
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The toughest thing will be crossing Madrid in a labour day. However if you do it in July-August the intensity will be less. I don't know if it's worth to avoid the A-2 between Calatayud and Zaragoza. Another alternative is a small road that goes in parallel with the Jalon River. It's not fast, but the road is very beatiful with the river and railway line all in parallel. Take a look:
http://maps.google.es/maps?hl=es&ll=...,335.2,,0,0.76
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Old June 28th, 2011, 06:34 PM   #2148
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I will be leaving Spain and crossing Madrid on September 16th, Friday...
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Old June 28th, 2011, 06:37 PM   #2149
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Crossing Madrid only requires to avoid rush hours (Sept-Jun / 7am-10am / 13-15 / 18-20) or going through toll roads but if you are not going to visit Madrid, you can use the M-50 and you will avoid most traffic jams.

But if you try to go to Madrid on rush hours, you will be delayed as much as 1 hour in most corridors.

If you are going to visit Madrid I suggest you to leave the car outside the M-30 perimeter (free parking on street) and use metro/bus/cercanias to visit the city.
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Old June 28th, 2011, 06:46 PM   #2150
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No, I will not visit Madrid... no time, unfortunately. It will be Sevilla-Andorra on the 16th and Andorra-Brescia (via Grenoble) on the 17th...
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Old June 28th, 2011, 07:14 PM   #2151
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Suburbanist, as I see some people have already answered you.
From Zaragoza to Torla the best way is A-23 > N-330 > N-260, as you have been said. It's the most direct one and works now aren't as problematic as two years ago (speed limit in tunnels was 40 Km/h).
But in case you prefer funnier roads and remote villages, I recommend you to visit the Aragonese thread.
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Old June 28th, 2011, 07:24 PM   #2152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicerón View Post
This is a picture of the works on the A-1:

Why a 1+0+1 layout instead of 1+2 or 2+1?
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Old June 28th, 2011, 07:32 PM   #2153
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Sometimes it is 2+1.

[IMG]http://i54.************/sxj59c.jpg[/IMG]
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Old June 28th, 2011, 07:46 PM   #2154
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No, I will not visit Madrid... no time, unfortunately. It will be Sevilla-Andorra on the 16th and Andorra-Brescia (via Grenoble) on the 17th...
¡Sevilla-Andorra in one day! That's a lot of distance... Almost 1200 km and the last 150 are in a normal road, crossing many villages.

Are you planning to visit Andorra? Because if next day you'll continue to Grenoble and Brescia, maybe it's better to take another way.

Seville-Grenoble is 1756 km via Andorra and from Lleida to almost Perpignan you have no motorway.

If you do Sevilla-Córdoba-Manzanares-Valencia-Barcelona You'll save 130 km and all the road will be in motorways (some with toll).
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Old June 28th, 2011, 08:07 PM   #2155
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A small tip from me to avoid the tolls on the stretch from Valencia to Alicante is to go through the interior. Check out this link.

Follow the A-7 signs directing you towards Alicante por interior. Follow that road in the direction of Albacete until you arrive at the junction with the A-31 near Almansa. The A-31 is a really fun road to drive, my favorite in Spain in fact. You'll save some €14 on tolls plus it's 16 kms shorter.
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Old June 28th, 2011, 08:52 PM   #2156
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¡Sevilla-Andorra in one day! That's a lot of distance... Almost 1200 km and the last 150 are in a normal road, crossing many villages.

Are you planning to visit Andorra? Because if next day you'll continue to Grenoble and Brescia, maybe it's better to take another way.

Seville-Grenoble is 1756 km via Andorra and from Lleida to almost Perpignan you have no motorway.

If you do Sevilla-Córdoba-Manzanares-Valencia-Barcelona You'll save 130 km and all the road will be in motorways (some with toll).
Yes the last part of the journey is still changeable, I just want to see Andorra only to say "yes, I've been there"... because I came to understand that there is not very much to see there... but this could be an advantage, just stay overnight, a couple of hours in the morning to visit and then back to Italy.

If I could make Sevilla-Brescia in one day I think there would be no reason to go to Andorra... but it cannot be done, and I have to divide the journey in two days anyway, so, why not visit the Principat?
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Old June 28th, 2011, 10:08 PM   #2157
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I believe it was shown on this thread once that that sector N-260 is hardly worth the status of Carretera Nacional.


Nowadays, some parts are fantastic and other parts are horrible.


At the aragonese part (central Pyrenees)

Janovas-Ainsa and Ainsa-Campo are fantastic
Campo-Castejón de Sos and Castejon de Sos - El Pont de Suert are very bad

Sabiñánigo-Biescas is all right but later is horrible too. But this part will be as secondary road next year as well as Sabiñánigo-Fiscal will have a new road (including a 3 km tunnel).

Just Fiscal-Janovas will have very bad road for just 10 km... But Sabiñánigo-Fiscal-Ainsa-Campo will be all right except in those 10 km.

From Sabiñanigo there will be (not now but on works) free highway to Pamplona and Huesca-Zaragoza, as well as Jaca is only 21 km away from Somport tunnel (8 km international road tunnel to France and... free of toll)
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Old June 29th, 2011, 12:48 AM   #2158
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Andorra is nice, is a very small country full of mountains. But I think that it's worth to spend more than two hours on it. Just going to sleep may not be the best option due to the bad roads that you'll have to take to arrive and to left the country.

From Zaragoza to Andorra takes the same time than from Zaragoza to Barcelona. If you take the coastal route you'll have the chance to sleep in any coastal town with lots of hotels.
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Old June 29th, 2011, 12:40 PM   #2159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Yes the last part of the journey is still changeable, I just want to see Andorra only to say "yes, I've been there"... because I came to understand that there is not very much to see there... but this could be an advantage, just stay overnight, a couple of hours in the morning to visit and then back to Italy.
Well, in January I visited a town which is located 40 km Northeast of Barcelona only to yell "I've been there!" the next day here in SSC. I have some forumers about to commit suicide because of that town and so many times I write its name.

I reached that town by commuter train, but I had time for clinch 400 meters of N-II .
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Old June 29th, 2011, 04:23 PM   #2160
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Google Street View has just been updated in Spain, as well as in many other countries:
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Release 37 / June 29, 2011; 0 days ago
Isle of Man, Jersey, more locations in the United States, Italy, Spain, Sweden, Denmark, Taiwan, South Africa
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