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Old June 29th, 2011, 08:08 PM   #2161
alserrod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Hey guys, thank you all very much for all feeback. I'll later check that thread, I can read Spanish for most of it, but not write it (I speak Italian and Portuguese, so that helps).

I want to take N260 because it is a mountain road! I love mountain passes, the twists and so. But I like to know what I'm going to face ahead, specially in regard of recent work/traffic.

We just update our plans, added 3 days to our trip. This is where I'm going to drive in Spain:

Donostia-Zaragoza: instead of going via A5/AP15, we'll leave very early, taking N121-A out of Irún. Then, we'll branch off in Bera, than Sare (France), then, back on N121-B to Elizondo and Berroeta, then N121-A again to Pamplona, taking the highway to Zaragoza arriving late at night there and stay for 2 days. We want to drive through some more remote Basque areas, and that seemed a good route.
Suggestion. Get at least one or two days to visit Zaragoza. It will impress you.

You can use this page (it is in English) to plan your visit. They recommend you some tipplical 24-48-72 hours visit but you can select wich kind of things you are more interesting and visit will be updated.


Quote:
Zaragoza-Monte Perdido: we'll go to Biescas,
biEscas

Zaragoza-Nueno is highway. 120 km/h
Nueno-Biescas is road. 80-100 km/h except some point.

Biescas-Torla is worst but one of best panoramics


Quote:
Torla and enter the park and enjoy it for the day, spendind the night in Torla.
There are enough hotels in environment. It is mandatory to park the car at Torla and get a bus to enter on National Park. (It is also another way to check that no more than 1800 people are at the same time inside that valley... the maximum recommended).


From final bus stop you can get the way until the final of the valley. It finish on a waterfall.
Aprox. 3h going and 2,5 h back.
Impossible to get lost because it is the only possible way. Almost 3/4 of the path can be made with an off-road car (but only national park guards cars are allowed there. There are too many restrictions)

The "hunter path" (senda de los cazadores) is nice (you can ask for information in the park office) but requires a high level of trekking.


Quote:
Next day, I'll take pedro's suggestion of the Añisclo Canyon via Fanlo. Then we're headed to Bielsa and Monte Perdido. The next day we'll stay there and visit some other remote spots by hiking or smth.

Should you want to visit interesting panoramics, this road (it is "less than a local road") it is ESSENTIAL.

But one important detail: it is a one-way-road, from east to west. So then, I recommend you to go to Ainsa (visiting this old town takes no more than one-two hours and it is essential too... and you have to cross that town), turn to France and at Escalona turn left to Añisclo Canyon.

At google street view you can have a look of this road. You can drive 30 km/h or... more slowly, enjoying mountains.
Way back to Ainsa can be made via Bio (parallel road).




Quote:
Monte Perdido - Andorra: we'll take A138, N260 and A139 until its end. But not rafting. We'll sleep at Benasque.
At Benasque you can get some "off-road buses" which go very, very high.
Page is only in Spanish but easy to get timetables and ways.

Before going to El Pont de Suert I will recommend you to turn right until Roda de Isabena. It is a 40 people village with a cathedral!!!! (first of all, two cathedrals where built: Jaca and Roda. Later Huesca was built but Roda bishop moved to Barbastro (new cathedral)... but... Roda cathedral instead exists as the first day!!!
Apart of that, pics are fantastic from here. You can see Turbon mountain from north... and south, and Obarra strait.


Quote:
The following day, we take N260, than N230 to Vielhas, then C28 and C13 to Liavorsí crossing Paso Bonaigua, from where we'll enter the valley up to Tavascan, stop in some remote villages to check them out, and go to Sort. Next day we take N260 again and go to Andorra. So it will be a lot of fun, I hope, as we're leaving Thursday after these last-minute changes. I couldn't find online info on Paso Bonaigua, but I assume it is open already (Michelin says it closes December-March) despite the harsh European winter.
You will have no problem at Bonaigua (and rest of ports). If snow, you can have some problems some days... but it is a main road and only if hard snow on winter can create problems.




Good luck.
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Old June 29th, 2011, 08:19 PM   #2162
alserrod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I'll take the opportunity to ask you guys some tips about Spanish roads, since as Suburbanist I'm planning my trip to Spain, next September. My plan draft is:

- Follow all the AP-7 from French border to Alicante then A-7/A-91/A-92 to Granada;
- Basically roam Andalucia, with bases in Granada, then Cadiz and then Sevilla, with blitz into Portugal (maybe Faro) and Gibraltar.
- going back through Merida, Madrid, Zaragoza, Lleida, Andorra.

Do you have any advice (roads to avoid due to roadworks or probable tailbacks?)

Thanks!

THIS YEAR... AVOID A-2 between La Almunia and Zaragoza. If you are making a long trip it could be not only slow and a nuisance but also dangerous if tired.


From Madrid to Lleida you can choose these two alternatives:

- A-2 until Calatayud or La Almunia, turn right with regional or national roads to get A-23 and later way to Zaragoza. Same way but more kilometres.

- A-2 until Alcolea del Pinar. N-211 direction Teruel until Monreal del Campo. Later Caminreal, Montalban, Alcañiz, Caspe, Fraga and there... highway A-2 to Lleida (if destination is Andorra do not get AP-2 toll motorway because it goes to the south of Lleida, get A-2 which goes on the north).


Andalucia-Barcelona can be made by A-4 until Manzanares and later highway to Valencia and toll motorway to Barcelona (it is possible to avoid some parts of toll as well as there are some parallel free highways) or... the same alternative I commented via Alcolea del Pinar, and at Alcañiz... via Tarragona.


Crossing Madrid should have no problem if avoid early morning, 18-20h (but less than on mornings) and sunday evenings.
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Old June 29th, 2011, 08:30 PM   #2163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pedro View Post
Andorra is nice, is a very small country full of mountains. But I think that it's worth to spend more than two hours on it. Just going to sleep may not be the best option due to the bad roads that you'll have to take to arrive and to left the country.

From Zaragoza to Andorra takes the same time than from Zaragoza to Barcelona. If you take the coastal route you'll have the chance to sleep in any coastal town with lots of hotels.


I agree with Pedro.
Two hours at Andorra aren't enough. You have there the biggest natural Spa (http://www.caldea.com/en/) all over Europe, apart of more resorts, adventure paths on summer, etc...

Some important things about Andorra:

- It is NOT part of European Union. No problem to enter there for UE citizens with passport anyway but... it is not UE nation. (yes.. really, event if Euro is official coin and country capital is 10 km away from Spain and 20 away from France).
- ALL the country is a duty free shop, as far as they do not pay taxes as in any other UE country. Very expensive goods can be cheaper just only because avoiding VAT and other taxes.
But... take care with customs (event French or Spanish). In both countries will stop ALL cars and check one suitcase to see whath you are carrying.
There are maximum quantities to cross with nothing to declare.

Anyways... if you enter Andorra... exit there with your fuel tank FULLLLLLL. Gasoline is much, much, much cheaper than at France or Spain.
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Old June 29th, 2011, 08:38 PM   #2164
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Thanks alserrod. I still don't know about going to Andorra. Our vacation is Andalucia, and given that we don't have much time (12-13 days, including more than 3 for the trip) I think it could not be worth it. It's always better trying not to "over-do" too many things.
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Old June 30th, 2011, 08:38 PM   #2165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
I agree with Pedro.
Two hours at Andorra aren't enough. You have there the biggest natural Spa (http://www.caldea.com/en/) all over Europe, apart of more resorts, adventure paths on summer, etc...

Some important things about Andorra:

- It is NOT part of European Union. No problem to enter there for UE citizens with passport anyway but... it is not UE nation. (yes.. really, event if Euro is official coin and country capital is 10 km away from Spain and 20 away from France).
- ALL the country is a duty free shop, as far as they do not pay taxes as in any other UE country. Very expensive goods can be cheaper just only because avoiding VAT and other taxes.
But... take care with customs (event French or Spanish). In both countries will stop ALL cars and check one suitcase to see whath you are carrying.
There are maximum quantities to cross with nothing to declare.

Anyways... if you enter Andorra... exit there with your fuel tank FULLLLLLL. Gasoline is much, much, much cheaper than at France or Spain.
And get some cigarettes! I get mine in Gibraltar when I'm there...
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Old June 30th, 2011, 09:37 PM   #2166
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Fortunately, I don't smoke...
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Old June 30th, 2011, 09:39 PM   #2167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Fortunately, I don't smoke...
That's even cheaper!
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Old June 30th, 2011, 10:18 PM   #2168
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off-topic

and CDs or other storage devices (including normal music CDs)

At least at Spain there is a tax for those devices (even for original music CD) very expensive (some device as a pendrive can be cheap... but a hugh part of price are special taxes). They do not exist at Andorra so... the same CD bought there can be cheeeeeaper (and they have ALL you can ask)


PD. and for travellers... gasoline is much cheaper.



off-topic end
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Old July 1st, 2011, 04:47 AM   #2169
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Vic - Ripoll motorway upgrade/conversion of C-17 opened today.
(located north of Barcelona direction Carcassonne more or less)



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Old July 1st, 2011, 10:26 AM   #2170
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Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
off-topic

and CDs or other storage devices (including normal music CDs)

At least at Spain there is a tax for those devices (even for original music CD) very expensive (some device as a pendrive can be cheap... but a hugh part of price are special taxes). They do not exist at Andorra so... the same CD bought there can be cheeeeeaper (and they have ALL you can ask)


PD. and for travellers... gasoline is much cheaper.



off-topic end
Just out of curiosity, do European Union citizens need to pay taxes or duty or whatever, when they get home, on products bought in Andorra?
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Old July 1st, 2011, 11:03 AM   #2171
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Just out of curiosity, do European Union citizens need to pay taxes or duty or whatever, when they get home, on products bought in Andorra?
If you're driving, and French customs stop you, then yes, they will make you pay. If you're lucky, and they don't stop you, then go like hell and take them home. If you're going to Britain, then British customs may want to have a word with you, if you haven't paid any duties to the French. When you get home, and nobody bothered you on your way - then keep your mouth shut.
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Old July 1st, 2011, 12:51 PM   #2172
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Just out of curiosity, do European Union citizens need to pay taxes or duty or whatever, when they get home, on products bought in Andorra?


There are borders and customs with France and Spain, so you have to pay all taxes as if you come from outside European Union.

This is... similar as if you buy anything in an airport duty free shop outside UE. You can buy all you want but later when landing, you may know if you have to declare it or not.

Quantities that can be imported off-duty are the same than in any airport, for example. The difference is that in a plane you have one or two suitcases and in a car... you can have it full of goods.

At Spanish customs, police stop ALL cars, open them and choose just one suitcase. You show what you carry there... and if no problem, continue. But all cars are stopped.

Another thing that is controlled (and more difficult but recently they took some cases) is money. Andorra has no taxes and you can open there a bank account and give your money. They will use in finantial markets and you earn money as in your normal bank but... they do not report anything to other countries (and they have a specific law for "bank secret").
This means you can go of tourism and carry a lot of money in the car (no plane, no X-ray controls, etc...). Once you enter, you can open an account and will be semi-secret for your local authorities. You earn money and, when you need it, you ask it in bank notes and cross the border again.

Should you be stopped with money entering Andorra you are accused because leaving money not declared
Should you be stopped with money going out Andorra you will be asked how did you earned so much money inside (and too many questions...)


It is totally legal to have there an account and declare every movement you make at your country (just making by bank transfer means it is declared as an international transfer outside UE). But... all money earned at Andorra must be declared (authorities will ask for that money...)

The only way, absolute legal and some sport players have made is having legal residence INSIDE Andorra. It is less than 300 km away from Barcelona and... you avoid any kind of taxes.
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Old July 2nd, 2011, 12:24 AM   #2173
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Coming back about Spanish motorways, after some months of restrictions (110 km/h), since today, maximum speed allowed is set in 120 km/h again for all network.
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Old July 5th, 2011, 09:06 PM   #2174
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|| From VALLADOLID to REINOSA in Spain ||

Map here: http://maps.google.es/maps?saddr=Cal...a=1,2&t=h&z=11















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Old July 5th, 2011, 09:07 PM   #2175
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Part 2:
























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Old July 5th, 2011, 09:07 PM   #2176
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Part 3:

















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Old July 5th, 2011, 09:19 PM   #2177
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|| From SANTANDER Airport to VALLADOLID ||

Map here: http://maps.google.es/maps?saddr=Car...16&via=1,2&z=8

















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Old July 5th, 2011, 09:20 PM   #2178
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Part 2:
























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Old July 5th, 2011, 09:21 PM   #2179
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Part 3:



























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Old July 6th, 2011, 11:34 AM   #2180
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Thanks for pictures...

A-67 motorway was finnally opened (last part, because every year some km. were opened) in july 2009.

There is a thread about it and you will find too many information and photos.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...382068&page=16
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