daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old July 25th, 2011, 08:23 PM   #2221
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,828

First of all, sorry by mistake. I read about that in a car's magazine... but it is sure I toke a mistake: it is not the longest in the world but only in Europe.


One additional thing about this "distance". I was not sure and as they are updating asphalt and traffic signals usually I have taken a time to see how it is now in google earth (when you make a regular trip, you know the exit and you go directly there looking less information signals that maybe you know by head)

Some years ago they used to point as this:

- Somewhere in the area as touristic interest... or if it is away but that's the direction, the number of km. Usually some km before the exit
- Distance to some towns and villages near the exit some km before the exit
- Signal on 1 km exit and... signal about the distance of next exit
- Signal of 500m exit
- Signal of inmediately exit.


Today something have changed:

- Tourist information (maybe 3 km before exit) is kept.
- 2 km before they indicate main town or villages you can go from that exit. Nothing about distances.
- Exit is indicated 1km, 500m and inmediately but... they do not say distance to the next one.


It could be not important but if next one is 46 km away and there is no way to take back before... maybe it should be pointed!!!!
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old July 25th, 2011, 09:16 PM   #2222
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,624
Likes (Received): 19421

Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
First of all, sorry by mistake. I read about that in a car's magazine... but it is sure I toke a mistake: it is not the longest in the world but only in Europe.
Unfortunately, we in the western world consider the "world" to be Europe / U.S. / Canada and maybe some Asia. I come across such mistakes quite often.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2011, 09:19 PM   #2223
CNGL
Leudimin
 
CNGL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Huesca
Posts: 7,467
Likes (Received): 1937

And then you don't remember that Australia doesn't have international borders .
__________________
Neque porro quisquam est qui dolorem ipsum, quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non nunquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem - Cicero, De finibus bonorum et malorum, from which placeholder text is derived.
CNGL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 28th, 2011, 10:54 PM   #2224
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,828

A 7,1 km motorway has been opened in the centre-south of Spain.

It is part of a motorway in the south of Madrid that connects Cuenca-A3 (motorway Madrid-Valencia)-A4 (motorway to Sevilla)-Toledo-A5 (motorway to Badajoz-Lisboa)

Official ministry note:
http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_.../110728-02.htm


When finished, it will be the fastest way Lisboa-Valencia and will avoid crossing Madrid.

The part opened this week is closed the A4 (motorway to Sevilla)
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 28th, 2011, 11:46 PM   #2225
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,624
Likes (Received): 19421

Apparently they also reconfigured the A-7 east of Málaga to 2x3 lanes:

Last edited by ChrisZwolle; July 29th, 2011 at 02:35 PM.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 29th, 2011, 02:10 PM   #2226
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Apparently they also reconfigured the A-7 east of Málaga to 2x3 lanes:
East of Malaga has been 2x3 for quite some time. It was there 3 years ago as far as I can remember...

Might be wrong though...
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 29th, 2011, 05:28 PM   #2227
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,624
Likes (Received): 19421

A-7 was 2x3 until exit 243, on the east side of Málaga. Apparently it's now 2x3 until exit 246B.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 30th, 2011, 06:51 AM   #2228
OriK
Usuario Registrado
 
OriK's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 721
Likes (Received): 173

Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
A 7,1 km motorway has been opened in the centre-south of Spain.

It is part of a motorway in the south of Madrid that connects Cuenca-A3 (motorway Madrid-Valencia)-A4 (motorway to Sevilla)-Toledo-A5 (motorway to Badajoz-Lisboa)
[...]
When finished, it will be the fastest way Lisboa-Valencia and will avoid crossing Madrid.

The part opened this week is closed the A4 (motorway to Sevilla)
That motorway is called "Autovía de Castilla-La Mancha" (although it's an Autopista, not an Autovía ) or A-40... it was planned a lot of years ago and some streches have been opened for years and its final path will be Ávila-Toledo-Cuenca-Teruel.

In its way through Toledo it is also the north stretch of its ringroad.

But I seriously doubt that this will become someday into the fastest way Lisboa-Valencia, it probably will be the A-43 or "Autovía Extremadura-Comunidad Valenciana" (the east part is already open, I used it last week as an alternative route for Murcia-Madrid, the west part is projected): http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autov%C...dad_Valenciana

_______________________________________________________________

I've found a funny old video of the public TV telling people what is a motorway, why it's better than a conventional road and teaching them how to use acceleration lanes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdHireMxDWc
OriK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 30th, 2011, 04:49 PM   #2229
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,828

Quote:
Originally Posted by OriK View Post
That motorway is called "Autovía de Castilla-La Mancha" (although it's an Autopista, not an Autovía ) or A-40... it was planned a lot of years ago and some streches have been opened for years and its final path will be Ávila-Toledo-Cuenca-Teruel.

In its way through Toledo it is also the north stretch of its ringroad.

But I seriously doubt that this will become someday into the fastest way Lisboa-Valencia, it probably will be the A-43 or "Autovía Extremadura-Comunidad Valenciana" (the east part is already open, I used it last week as an alternative route for Murcia-Madrid, the west part is projected): http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autov%C...dad_Valenciana

_______________________________________________________________

I've found a funny old video of the public TV telling people what is a motorway, why it's better than a conventional road and teaching them how to use acceleration lanes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdHireMxDWc


I was living for two years where cross A43/A-4. Parts are already opened but other parts are very slow... so this way will be, for some years the best way, even if not all motorway.


Another detail... the official page talks about Avila-Toledo-Cuenca-Teruel. It is absolutely stopped finishing at Teruel and that could have a... a different thread... The environmental report was finished but stopped for some months. They just said the proposed way was not allowed, but not alternative till now.
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 30th, 2011, 07:27 PM   #2230
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,828

About "autopista" and "autovía".

In most of cases it is possible you will find them confused in the own route...

First motorways built in Spain where toll ones and called "autopista".

In the early 90s there were many roads where they used it as a lane of a highway and built the second one... having two separated ways with two lanes each one.
But there was no alternative way. So then ALL one who wanted to use that route had to go there (even pedestrian, bikes, little motorcycles, country vehicles...).

After some years, there are some alternative ways for those cases in most but not all motorways.


In general:

motorway: at least two lanes per direction, general limit speed 120 km/h and not allowed little vehicles (country vehicles, bikes, motorcycles, etc...) and they will always have an alternative way

highway: similar but without an alternative way.

Should it be forbidden for those vehicles, it is indicated in the entrance.

Normally, 99% of toll routes are motorways (there is a single one lane tunnel with toll, for exaple).
Public ones... there are all kind of routes. New one have alternative ways (so then, motorways). Old ones maybe not (so then highways).

And do not take care of indications about names on the road... because most of them are obsolete (if they say "Autopista" sure it has an alternative, but if it says "Autovia" it is possible there is an alternative and signal not updated).
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2011, 06:04 AM   #2231
treichard
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 125
Likes (Received): 0

Alserrod, forgive me for nitpicking here. A year or so ago, I was trying to figure out the difference between autopistas and autovias in this very thread from another Spanish author's post, and your use of "highway" would have confused me then.

I think you're trying to translate "autovia" as "highway," but "expressway" is a better choice. Even better would be "autopista" = "toll motorway," and "autovia" = "toll-free motorway" or "toll-free expressway" depending on the standard at which it was built.

But it may be best to simply stick to the two Spanish words, since their definitions in your context are specific to Spain. You mention the criterion of whether an autopista or autovia has an alternative route as part of the definitions, but that criterion is usually irrelevant for "motorway" and "expressway" in English. On the other hand, when you said, "if they say 'Autopista' sure it has an alternative, but if it says 'Autovia' it is possible there is an alternative and signal not updated," you were clear.

"Highway" is a much less specific word that refers to any main or direct road for non-local traffic. Highways take you to the next town, city, autonomous community, or country (as opposed to local roads like streets). AP-7, A-4, N-400, and even two-lane, undivided CM-322 are all highways, but of course only A-4 is an autovia.
__________________
Map your cumulative highway travel in Europe and North America
Now includes the motorway and expressway systems of over 20 European countries
Clinched Highway Mapping
http://cmap.m-plex.com/
treichard no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2011, 08:29 AM   #2232
Attus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Rheinbach
Posts: 2,770
Likes (Received): 1039

For me this discuss about road categories ss stranage since Pista is a nickname for a very common Hungarian name István (=Stephen)
Attus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2011, 10:34 AM   #2233
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,624
Likes (Received): 19421

Many Europeans think "highway" means "motorway" and nothing else. As in "an Autopista is a highway, but a carretera nacional is a road".
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2011, 11:21 AM   #2234
CNGL
Leudimin
 
CNGL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Huesca
Posts: 7,467
Likes (Received): 1937

Quote:
Originally Posted by treichard View Post
Alserrod, forgive me for nitpicking here. A year or so ago, I was trying to figure out the difference between autopistas and autovias in this very thread from another Spanish author's post, and your use of "highway" would have confused me then.

I think you're trying to translate "autovia" as "highway," but "expressway" is a better choice. Even better would be "autopista" = "toll motorway," and "autovia" = "toll-free motorway" or "toll-free expressway" depending on the standard at which it was built.

But it may be best to simply stick to the two Spanish words, since their definitions in your context are specific to Spain. You mention the criterion of whether an autopista or autovia has an alternative route as part of the definitions, but that criterion is usually irrelevant for "motorway" and "expressway" in English. On the other hand, when you said, "if they say 'Autopista' sure it has an alternative, but if it says 'Autovia' it is possible there is an alternative and signal not updated," you were clear.

"Highway" is a much less specific word that refers to any main or direct road for non-local traffic. Highways take you to the next town, city, autonomous community, or country (as opposed to local roads like streets). AP-7, A-4, N-400, and even two-lane, undivided CM-322 are all highways, but of course only A-4 is an autovia.
I translate both autopista and autovía as motorway, as there are no differences between an autopista and an autovía nowadays. As you said, highway means any kind of paved road, for me too.
__________________
Neque porro quisquam est qui dolorem ipsum, quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non nunquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem - Cicero, De finibus bonorum et malorum, from which placeholder text is derived.
CNGL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2011, 05:16 PM   #2235
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,828

Let me post an example


Z40 is the orbital motorway at Zaragoza:





This is a pic about that motorway: Two lanes in each direction with a 3,5m wide. Road shoulders of about 2m in the right and 0,5-1m in the left, in both directions




In one of the entrances it is clearly indicated that no pedestrians, bikes or little vehicles are allowed in the motorway






But in the same entrance... just 100m ahead it is indicated the signal of "autovia"!!!!!!




And it is a motorway opened in 2008!!!!!!!

But... otherwise, in all official ministry notes, they talk always about "autopista Z40".


I have tried to find the "legal" differences between one and the other names... and found nothing relevant.

So then:

- It is clear that even inside Spain with new roads there is a confusion on names

- For any conversation in English I will recommend to use always the name of "motorways". Some of them can be free, some of them can be toll ones... but as you can see, Z40 is free and will have no differences with toll ones (there are specific laws, but that can have a different conversation)



For general information: All motorways are indicated in blue signals with white letters.

Toll motorways will be indicated as following:

Always a signal of toll before entering it. The signal is as this one (can change, but not too much):





Anyway, as in general, toll motorways will be named as:

- AP-XX (instead of A-XX). Anywhere... should you are going to make a trip... think that paying is not always cheaper... For example, take a look to AP-7 and A-7 near Cambrils in the coast... look traffic, type of road and... which one is absolute free and which is toll one.

- R-X in motorways near Madrid

- AG-XX in Galicia (regional toll motorways) or C-XX in Catalonia (same case but here there is no distinction except the signal of toll).



And... there are part of toll motorways that are free ways in some cases... The motorway is the same...
Or the AP-36 (second way Madrid-Alicante). It is toll motorway until the cross with the A-43 and later it is free but kept by the same company for some kilometres more until near Albacete. It was one of the conditions for construction.




And for finishing...
- As I said, I recommend to use "motorway" in any English conversation.

- Should anyone is going to make a long trip think that a toll motorway can be the fastest way or... cannot!!!!!!
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2011, 05:22 PM   #2236
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,828

About "express ways", there was someones but the name and consideration still do not exist.

They were called "via rapida", and signals were in green. In most of cases they were thouth as the first carriageway for a motorway. This is... they build now a carriageway with one lane in each direction but specifications of motorway and later... the second carriage way... and finishing the "express way" and starting the "motorway".

But I think less thank ten cases existed in Spain before the name was cancelled (now they are considered as normal roads or motorways).

I remember that, when I had my driving licence exam I asked several questions to teacher about those signals and he said me... do not worry, they have never asked anything about it and up to today... no express way exists in Spain (first one was under construction), only they exists in laws.
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2011, 06:43 PM   #2237
treichard
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 125
Likes (Received): 0

Here are legal definitions for the Spanish road types:

http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM.Busca...20100_1988.pdf

Quote:
Artículo 2.
1. Se consideran carreteras las vías de dominio y uso público proyectadas y construidas fundamentalmente para la circulación de vehículos automóviles.
2. Por sus características, las carreteras se clasifican en autopistas, autovías, vías rápidas y carreteras convencionales.
3. Son autopistas las carreteras que están especialmente proyectadas, construidas y señalizadas como tales para la exclusiva circulación de automóviles y reúnen las siguientes características:
a)
No tener acceso a las mismas las propiedades colindantes.
b)
No cruzar a nivel ninguna otra senda, vía, línea de ferrocarril o tranvía ni ser cruzada a nivel por senda, vía de comunicación o servidumbre de paso alguna.
c)
Constar de distintas calzadas para cada sentido de circulación, separadas entre sí, salvo en puntos singulares o con carácter temporal, por una franja de terreno no destinada a la circulación o, en casos excepcionales, por otros medios.
4. Son autovías las carreteras que, no reuniendo todos los requisitos de las autopistas, tienen calzadas separadas para cada sentido de la circulación y limitación de accesos a las propiedades colindantes.
5. Son vías rápidas las carreteras de una sola calzada y con limitación total de accesos a las propiedades colindantes.
6. Reglamentariamente se establecerán las limitaciones a la circulación en las carreteras de los diferentes tipos de vehículos.
7. Son carreteras convencionales las que no reúnen las características propias de las autopistas, autovías y vías rápidas.
8. Son áreas de servicio las zonas colindantes con las carreteras, diseñadas expresamente para albergar instalaciones y servicios destinados a la cobertura de las necesidades de la circulación, pudiendo incluir estaciones de suministro de carburantes, hoteles, restaurantes, talleres de reparación y otros servicios análogos destinados a facilitar la seguridad y comodidad de los usuarios de la carretera.
Article 2 gives the legal definitions of autopista, autovia, via rapida, and carretera convencional. (If I were to paste a Google-translated version, the translation would misuse words like "highway.")

I too heard somewhere (probably upthread) that the via rapida class was merged with the carreteras convencionales after that document was created. Nonetheless there are VRG routes in Galicia that are single carriageway "super-2 expressways." I presume that VRG means via rapida gallega.

But note that a via rapida as defined above is only one kind of expressway that Spain has. Even though "via rapida" and "expressway" look like a direct translation of each other, "expressway" in English is a broader highway class and can mean either "via rapida" ("super-2 expressway") or "autovia," especially an autovia that is of lower standard than a modern autovia or autopista ("motorway/freeway").
__________________
Map your cumulative highway travel in Europe and North America
Now includes the motorway and expressway systems of over 20 European countries
Clinched Highway Mapping
http://cmap.m-plex.com/

Last edited by treichard; July 31st, 2011 at 06:43 PM. Reason: clarification
treichard no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2011, 09:05 PM   #2238
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,828

It is an article of the "Road's law". I will try to have a look to actual one as well as the 1988 law is out of date.

They talk about autopista, autovia, via rapida and carretera.
As I said in my last message... "via rapida" does not exist further more and it is obsolete. Signals where in green but there are no more ones.

In the photos of my last post I pointed a motorway with no access to anywhere besides, no crossing any other path, road, etc (since exit to exit, no posissibility of crossing) and has two different carriageways for both directions... In all documents appears as a "autopista" but the signal before entering it is for and "autovia".

Making a quick translation, the road's law in this article requires the following difference between and autopista and autovia:

- No access to anywhere besides the carriageway.

This is, for instance... if some houses, restaurant, etc... where closed to an old road, it was updated, made second carriageway and... that is an "autovia", as well as there will have at least a specific exit for a specific point.

Years passes and some of these point became the most dangerous... so the cross and access there where updated. Most of times, enought to stop talking of autovia and become to talk of autopista.

But... as you can see, a new road opened in 2008 and wrote in all official papers as autopista is set as autovia in the signal before entering it.


I promise to try to have a look to current law. I do not know if I will find anything new... but in anycase I keep my recomendations: use the word "motorway" in any English conversation, as well as you can see that the own Spanish administration is not able to distingish correctly one term to the another.
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2011, 10:25 PM   #2239
x-type
con los terroristas
 
x-type's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bjelovar [HR]
Posts: 13,473
Likes (Received): 3448

Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
"via rapida" does not exist further more and it is obsolete. .
you mean they don't officialy exist in law? because in reality they exist. for instance C63 Vidreres - Lloret de Mar. there should also be speed limit 100 km/h if i remember well.
__________________
Svaki dan sanjam autobahn...
x-type no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2011, 10:53 PM   #2240
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,828

Well... it is clear every country has its own specifications...

- Normal road with road-shoulders longer than 1,5m: speed limit = 100 km/h
- Normal road with road-shoudlers up to 1,5 m: speed limit = 90 km/h

Usually lanes are 3,5 m wide.

And usually all new roads are calculated for 100 km/h, but in some special cases they can design it for 90 km/h (as well as the A-23 motorway will have a restriction of 80 km/h in the Monrepos mountain pass, for some kilometres).


I have checked the laws and... nothing new. This is... the "via rapida" still exists at laws but nowadays there are no one in Spain.

a "Via rapida" was a road with no access to anywhere, except in the exits, fenced in both sides, etc... but only one carriageway and only one lane per direction.
Via rapida signals were pointed in green.

At Spain you will see always all roads in white and motorways in blue. Nothing else in green.


Having a look to C-63 , road shoulders aren't wider than 1,5m, there are some slides restrictions to 60 km/h and some access to some areas besides the road. And it is not fenced!!



As you can see, the access to the right is not standard anyway.



The main difference between a "autovia" and an "autopista" is that at an "autovia you will have some access like this one". Maybe they used the old road and they still exists.
In the "autopista" it is forbidden to have this.

Anyway, general roads with a new route (different that updating an old road) must have by law no access anywhere.
So then, any new road, motorway or anything will have the characteristics of an autopista.


There are some old roads (normal ones and few highways) with old routes... but they have been updated.


This is why I recommend to talk always as "motorways" in an English conversation. We can avoid mistakes.

And... the first mistake is in the post I wrote this afternoon... where a new motorway is indicated as highway.
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
autopista, carreteras, españa, highways, motorways, road, spain, spain in the world, via rapida

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium