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Old August 24th, 2011, 12:00 PM   #2321
alserrod
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I've made a trip from 140 km southern Barcelona to Milano when teenager with my parents. About 1000 km (and it wasn't the "worse" or "longer" we made).
It was ALL toll motorways except in a part near Marseille.

We didn't considered the ferry because for five people the fare is different (and toll motorway is the same)... but could be an interesting option.

When you pay a single traject... you say, nice... no problem if paying something but arriving faster.
When you do a 1000 km toll motorway... you need a budget!!!!. I remember than in all trips it was me who made calculations about toll and fuel for every trip. Writting the traject for each toll, the fuel payed and price, etc...

This is why if you can save something, could be interesting.

Anyway... if departing from the city of Barcelona (and not from the motorway that comes from France, the C-32 is the faster way to exit from city... but also the most expensive... and the toll is only for a 10 km tunnels traject. This is... the motorway is the same, it is free to exit and entering it, but there are toll cabins in the tunnels. So if you make a little trip until the begining of the tunnels... free, if you make a short trip arount Sitges, free... if you go from Barcelona to Sitges by the tunnels, be sure you will pay in 10 km your full toll and maybe something more... (if you go on motorway until tunnels, you get a coast road with 50 km/h restrictions and take again the motorway... totally free!).
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Old August 24th, 2011, 12:05 PM   #2322
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Spanish and Italian tolls are not that expensive anyway, compared to France. I actually enjoy that motorway via Nice to Genova. Done it loads of times. Last time I was in Monaco on a Friday doing a delivery, and they asked me to stay in France over the weekend for a collection in Tours on Monday. I decided to go home to Mayrhofen instead - a 6-hour drive via Genova, Piacenza and Brenner, and drove to Tours via Innsbruck, Basel and Dijon the following Sunday.
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Old August 24th, 2011, 01:25 PM   #2323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
This is exactly where I checked the prices..

According to viamicheling Barcelona-Genova via car should cost 140€...

Last edited by g.spinoza; August 24th, 2011 at 01:33 PM.
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Old August 28th, 2011, 02:17 PM   #2324
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Do I have to worry next month when I'll be in Spain?

http://video.corriere.it/spettacolar...d-1ebafd8b4f13

"Spectacular robberies in Spanish motorways"

Last edited by g.spinoza; August 28th, 2011 at 02:32 PM.
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Old August 28th, 2011, 05:26 PM   #2325
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Near Barcelona the police took a gang of people who stole things in the cars in the own motorway.

The system was always the samen... they chose a car with only one driver and foreing plate, they made signals about they had a crash or any problem and asked to stop for help. Both Cars stop in motorway shoulder and in some seconds, one person asks for help and another steels something located in the car. The first things he can carry (but it could be a bag with expensive things, a camera, etc...)

In general, at Spain there have been always some kind of steels and most of times choosing foreing cars and always in the same points.
They know that if they just steel a camera or similar to a person who comes from far away it will be possible he will not report to police (if he doesn't speak Spanish and he has to make a long trip maybe he prefers to forget it instead of loosing time, maybe for nothing).

Those thieves catched by police were known because it was, at least, the ninth time they made it... and I think that none of them were reported to police... but the traffic cameras on motorways record ALL... and a surveillor for those cameras can give images to police.

The day they were catched police knew they were on the motorway and put different cars to stop them. I think they put all cameras pointing to them instead than to traffic as far as they run on the motorway and... they made the steel!. Some kilometres later were stopped by some police cars and arrested.


But in general... the commun recommendations if you go on trip. Do not leave any goods in the seats, never open the car boot on public and distrusb from everybody you do not know.
It doesn't matter if they ask you about a direction, offer touristic information, have a crash on the road or just ask you what time it is... distrusb from everybody, and when stopping for lunch on motorways, try to get a restaurant where you can see you car in some point you see it from the table while you have your meal (remember that it is very difficult to find a restaurant in Spain opened before 13:30...).

You can make thousands of trips with no problem but should you have one, it will be not nice.

These incidents are used to happen in the motorways with more touristic trips. That's why near Barcelona, for example, there are most of them (almost all visitors for tourism enter Spain from that motorway).
In those motorways, the recommendations... 10 times more!.

In some motorways it will be very difficult to have any incident, even if not following anti-steel recommendations.
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Old August 30th, 2011, 09:37 PM   #2326
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For those who are interested in the history of the Spanish roads, I bring some maps courtesy of the Spanish National Atlas 1986-2008 (let the page load, then go to SECCIÓN VII: TRANSPORTES Y COMUNICACIÓN. Grupo 22-2ª edición (2007). Transportes por carretera).

If you want to see any map in detail, simply click to enlarge.


Let's begin


-Roman and Visigothic roads (1st to 7th centuries):




-Early Middle Ages:
Dashed black lines: Roads before the Muslim invasion of the Iberian Peninsula.
Green lines: Arab roads and roads used for military expeditions to the North.
Orange lines: Christian roads.





-Late Middle Ages:

Orange lines: Roads according to Al Idrisi.
Dashed black lines: Roads to Santiago de Compostela.
Dashed green lines: El Cid's roads.




-Main droveways of the Mesta.




-Roads in 1546:
Green triangles are ventas (hospitality businesses), red stars are bridges, blue anchors are boats.





-Roads in 1760:

Black lines are roads suitable for carts, red dashed lines are roads only suitable for horses.




-Roads in 1855:




-Roads in 1897:




Road plans:

-1761 road plan:



-1860 road plan:
From more to less important: Red - green - blue
Grey: Roads existing today but not in 1860.
Navarre and the Basque Country have a special status.






-1926: Circuito nacional de firmes especiales.
Basically main roads whose maintenance was more important.




-1939-41: Plan General de Carreteras de 1939-41 (Plan Peña).
This plan defined the national and regional road networks.
Red lines are national roads, green lines are regional roads.
The numbers represent the first two numbers of the road codes. The third number was even if the road was parallel to the coast, or odd if it wasn't. National roads' codes began with "N-", while regional ones began with "C-".
See: List of National roads, list of regional roads (nowadays the codes are different since they are managed by the regions).






-1951: Plan de Modernización de la Red de Carreteras Españolas.

Roads included in the plan for the refurbishment of the Spanish road network.




-1967: Plan de Mejora de la Red de Itinerarios Asfálticos (Plan REDIA).
A refurbishment for the 12 most important/busiest roads in Spain.




-1972 motorway plan: Plan de Autopistas Nacionales de España (PANE).
It projected several motorways, most of them tolled, through Spain, but only a few were actually built: A-1 Burgos-Armiñón, A-2 Zaragoza-Mediterráneo, A-4 Sevilla-Cádiz, A-6 Madrid-Adanero, A-7, A-8 Bilbao-Behovia and Gijón-Avilés, A-9, A-15, A-17, A-18, A-19 in Barcelona, A-49 Sevilla-Huelva, A-66 León-Avilés/Gijón, A-68 Bilbao-Zaragoza and some motorways on the islands. Now some of those have a different number.





-1984: Plan nacional de carreteras 1984-1991 (extended to 1993).

The reason why we now have those things called Autovías
Red double lines are the existing motorways.
Green double lines are the Autovías to be built between 1984 and 1987.
Blue double lines are the Autovías to be built between 1988 and 1993.
Orange double lines are the Autovías to be built between by the autonomous regions.
Purple/light blue solid lines are national roads whose layout was totally refurbished.
Purple/light blue dashed lines are national roads whose layout was locally refurbished, including 303 bypasses.
Yellow solid lines are roads whose platform and pavement was improved.
Grey solid lines are roads that were not improved.
It included the refurbishment of some urban roads in 78 cities with more than 50.000 inhabitants.



Do you remember when we said that some national roads such as the N-260 or N-621 were originally local roads and then become part of the state-owned network of national roads? Well, that happened in 1988 after a new law was approved. In the following table you can see the list of state-owned roads in 1988:
-Part 1.
-Part 2.
-Part 3.


The fifht column shows the roads they "come from" (actual means current, incluye means includes). For instance, the N-260 was, prior to 1988, the following regional roads: C-252, C-260, C-150, C-1313, C-146, C-147, C-144, C-139, C-140, C-140, C-138, C-140, C-136

Some national roads were "given" to the regional governments, such as the old N-625 (N-I in Ameyugo-Bilbao), now called CL-625, A-625, A-2625, CL-625 again, A-2625 again, BI-625, A-625 again, and finally BI-625



1993: Plan de actuaciones prioritarias de carreteras de carreteras 1993-1995:
Medium-width red lines are proposed autovías.
Green lines are refurbishments in national roads.
Blue dots represent bypasses.





1993: Plan director de infraestructuras 1993-2007:

The two first kinds of lines are respectively 1) existing tolled autopistas and 2) existing autovías and non-tolled autopistas.
Wide white lines with a narrow dashed black line in the middle are proposed tolled motorways.
Medium-width red lines are proposed autovías and (non-tolled) autopistas.
Yellow lines are important national roads.
Narrow red lines are the rest of national roads.
Dark blue lines are regional motorways, wider lines are already existing or u/c, the other are proposed.



2000: Plan de Infraestructuras 2000-2007 (PIT).
2010 scenario (too optimistic ):
Blue lines are State-owned tolled autopistas.
Red lines are State-owned autovías and free autopistas.
Grey lines are Regional autovías and autopistas.



2005: Plan Estratégico de Infraestructuras y Transporte (PEIT).
Blue lines: It says "altas prestaciones", which could be translated as high performance (?). That basically means motorways and vías rápidas, I guess.
Yellow lines mean improving safety and quality conditions.
Orange dots mean corridors with possible future motorways or vías rápidas
Green lines are motorways managed by the regional governments.


2020 scenario:




And finally, some maps showing the relative accessibility, i.e. the quotient between actual and ideal travel times:

1984:


1993:


2004:



Edit: Sorry, I saved the maps in PNG format because I though that it was the best format for this kind of image, but it seems it's too heavy.
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Last edited by Cicerón; August 30th, 2011 at 09:44 PM.
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Old September 1st, 2011, 05:30 PM   #2327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicerón View Post
Edit: Sorry, I saved the maps in PNG format because I though that it was the best format for this kind of image, but it seems it's too heavy.
perfect for me..

thanks, great contribution..
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Old September 2nd, 2011, 02:44 AM   #2328
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What is that green line in the 2020 scenario between Pamplona and Roncesvalles? Are they really planning to do a motorway there?

Great compilation
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Old September 2nd, 2011, 06:58 PM   #2329
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impresionantes los mapas Ciceron, muchas gracias

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Old September 2nd, 2011, 08:43 PM   #2330
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@amagaldu, solchante: You're welcome

Quote:
Originally Posted by rpc08 View Post
What is that green line in the 2020 scenario between Pamplona and Roncesvalles? Are they really planning to do a motorway there?

Great compilation
Some years ago there was a motorway planned there, but the French refused to build their part and thus it was (fortunately, IMO) cancelled.

This is the 2010-2018 road plan for Navarre (PDF, 197 pages): http://www.cfnavarra.es/obraspublica...%20def_WEB.pdf

According to the pages 114-115, now they want to build some tunnels for the existing N-135 and improve some stretches (it's the part called "Pamplona-Francia por Zubiri").
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Old September 2nd, 2011, 09:40 PM   #2331
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The French keep dragging their feet. Most urgent is the improvement of the Somport-Pau highway in France (it is a good road on the Spanish side).
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Old September 3rd, 2011, 12:12 AM   #2332
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Great pictures, it's kind of interesting to see some of the modern motorways routes matching with that of roman roads (A-66, A-7, A-49, amongst other)
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Old September 3rd, 2011, 11:37 AM   #2333
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In fact the A-66 is called "Autovía de la Ruta de la Plata". The Ruta de la Plata (silver route) was a roman road
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Old September 3rd, 2011, 03:57 PM   #2334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
The French keep dragging their feet. Most urgent is the improvement of the Somport-Pau highway in France (it is a good road on the Spanish side).
Absolutely. I did it a couple of months ago driving from Spain to France and the difference is incredible. The Spanish side is very good and quite high capacity, but once you get out of the Somport tunnel in France you are in a narrow sinuous mountain road that crosses infinity towns...

I felt like going back in time after the crossing. There were even French gendarmes checking every car on a town called Urdos like they were on the 70's... (I checked it on Street view and it seems they do it always...). It really seems the time hasn't pass on the French side...

I'm still amazed that as of today Spain and France are only connected by just 2 motorways and not even a single other usable high capacity road.
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Old September 3rd, 2011, 04:48 PM   #2335
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Until Jaca (20 km away from the tunnel) there is a motorway on works. Last part (only one km... but still keeping on) was opened last March. More or less there ir motorway until 12 km north to Huesca and 30 km. east of Pamplona.
The rest is on works with different evolutions. Maybe Sabiñanigo-Jaca (just the most closer to the tunnel) will be opened this year or in the beginning of 2011.

The motorway will make shorter a trip from Catalonia to Basque country, will connect a lot of Aragonese towns and will connect the Somport tunnel with an only 20 km road.


Current road to the tunnel was opened (refurbishment) in 1991. I remember it was the only one time the Tour of France entered at Aragon (one step finishing at Jaca and starting the next day, crossing Somport and Portalet mountain passes).
When Tour arrived the road was finished but lines on road weren't still painted.
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Old September 5th, 2011, 11:15 AM   #2336
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..

Last edited by Road_UK; September 5th, 2011 at 11:16 AM. Reason: What I said here made absolutly no sense whatsoever.
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Old September 5th, 2011, 02:08 PM   #2337
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Any updates regarding M-61 north of Madrid ?
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Old September 5th, 2011, 07:09 PM   #2338
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by CasaMor

AP-7?

image hosted on flickr
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Old September 5th, 2011, 10:52 PM   #2339
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AP-7 / A-7 in Benalmadena, going to Malaga

this is part of the toll motorway, but is the free part (no toll between Torremolinos and Fuengirola)
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Old September 6th, 2011, 06:31 AM   #2340
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Amazing pic
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