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Old September 29th, 2011, 08:12 PM   #2401
RamiroII
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It is an impressive work of infrastructure

Quote:
Originally Posted by stratotroter View Post
Could anyone tell me how many kilometers of the new highways(autopistas?) are under construction in Spain right now and how many Spain's got in general? BTW The photos in this thread just blew my mind...Awesomeness...
According to Eurostat 2008 data:



Spain clearly has the largest motorway network in Europe, and nowadays the gap with Germany is probably greater than in 2008. However, is this good for the country? Have we overextended?

Because looking also at data for modal split of passenger and freight transport, it shows that as a result of this policy of encouraging the use of mostly toll-free motorways all over the country, Spain has a bigger than average use of road transport, and a much less than average use of rail transport (both freight and passenger).

Our dependence upon foreign oil for moving all our trucks, cars and coaches makes our economy vulnerable to ever increasing oil prices, more so than other European nations, therefore making us less competitive. Morover, in this age of austerity and shrinking public budgets, how is the state going to support the maintenance costs of such a huge motorway network?

Last edited by RamiroII; September 29th, 2011 at 08:18 PM.
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Old September 29th, 2011, 08:20 PM   #2402
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In fact the railway company only focus on the most used axes as well as commuter trains.

The rest of trains (some of them are good but you see frequencies, timetables...) will require a different discussion.

There are some connections where the faster, easier and most confortable place... is the train, but only some of them

P.S. Barcelona-Sevilla is about 5h30m in train, and has several intermediate stops. For example Zaragoza-Cordoba is less than 3:00 in train (four ones daily). There is plane from Barcelona to Sevilla but nothing between intermediate stations... and the speed is the same.
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Old September 29th, 2011, 09:20 PM   #2403
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Spain has a very low construction cost of motorways, often averaging between € 3 and € 6 million per kilometer. This means that it is cost-effective to rebuild long-distance roads to motorways even at low traffic volumes.

Comparisons of network lengths are a bit hard. Germany and France have many expressways that are motorway-like or just below motorway status that adds another 2.000 - 2.500 kilometer to the network of high-standard roads, bringing their total closer to 14.000 kilometers. Spain doesn't have many roads like this (below Autovía status, but still 2x2 and grade-separated).
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Old September 29th, 2011, 09:32 PM   #2404
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With the Despeñaperros A-4 opening, will the old windy expressway there be called some like N-IVa or be given a provincial letter and number?
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Old September 29th, 2011, 09:34 PM   #2405
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Probably a road number like A-395-V-C-WTF.
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Old September 29th, 2011, 09:35 PM   #2406
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That has been a question made in the Spanish Forum.

I answered it is supposed so.
In all the refurbishements that are being made now, it is the longest part that will stay "old".

There is a second option: consider it as "A-4 shoulder" with no number.
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Old September 29th, 2011, 10:54 PM   #2407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treichard View Post
With the Despeñaperros A-4 opening, will the old windy expressway there be called some like N-IVa or be given a provincial letter and number?
I have read in other forum (urbanity.es) that the old autovia is going to be demolished.
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Old September 29th, 2011, 10:59 PM   #2408
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Demolished because it´s a natural reserve or so...
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Old September 30th, 2011, 01:30 AM   #2409
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Part of the old road has to be demolished to build the new one. Other part will remain and could be used... just for take a picture or for a back-up in case of closure
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Old September 30th, 2011, 11:00 AM   #2410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treichard View Post
With the Despeñaperros A-4 opening, will the old windy expressway there be called some like N-IVa or be given a provincial letter and number?
I think one of the old carriageways will be N-IV.

BTW, this new opening doesn't affect the highway browser at all, is only a realigment, and exit 251 remains at the same point.

And when you will update the lists? I have split mine in two.
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Old September 30th, 2011, 06:53 PM   #2411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Spain has a very low construction cost of motorways, often averaging between € 3 and € 6 million per Km. This means that it is cost-effective to rebuild long-distance roads to motorways even at low traffic volumes.
That is true, however in Spain there are also a lot of costly mountain passes – like the new Despeñaperros which runs at about € 25 million per kilometer. Furthermore, maintenance and financial costs should also be considered in the cost-effectiveness, take for example the last stretch of the A-66 Zamora-Benavente (49 Km): it has been awarded for € 1.3 billion (!), which includes the building and the maintenance for 30 years.

For the next decades, the Spanish state will have to pay for the maintenance of a larger motorway network than Germany, with barely a third of Germany's GDP, and with lower gas taxes and almost no tolls (see for instance the new Despeñaperros: a magnificent -and expensive- autovía completely free of use, therefore making the public budget bear the full burden of its cost, for decades to come). And there are even more projected low-traffic motorways to be built...
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Old October 1st, 2011, 11:22 AM   #2412
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There is a very easy example. You go to Canary Islands and you see that local roads keep asphalt perfect even after several years. Only if heavy traffic, they will need a little refurbishment.

In the rest of Spain the maintenance is important.

Why?.
Dilation.... At Canary Islands the roads will never get ice, will never be on lower temperatures. This makes that you put new asphalt and will remain perfect for a lot of years.

In the rest of Spain they exists too many roads with upper temperatures on summer and lower on winter, having an effect similar to the rest of Europe or sometimes greater (difference between maximal and minimal temperature).

Roads can be cheaper to built but mountains passes still keeps. It has the second average high over sea level at Europe after Switzerland and it is not flat.
And it remains to keep ok a free network
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Old October 1st, 2011, 11:45 AM   #2413
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The average altitude doesn't tell you anything about the geography. As you probably know, most of those highlands are a plateau (the Meseta) which is mostly flat or with rolling hills. A few mountain ranges stand out in central Spain, like the Guadarrama. For instance, AP-36 runs at mostly 700 - 720 meters altitude. In Germany that would mean a very hilly motorway with lots of tunnels and viaducts. However AP-36 runs through a flat area.

Even € 25 million per kilometer in mountainous areas is not extraordinary.

This is what 700 m altitude in central Spain looks like:


This is what 400 -500 m altitude in Germany can look like:
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Old October 1st, 2011, 01:02 PM   #2414
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Yeah, but Spain is the second most mountainous country of Europe only behind of Switzerland.....so it's very expensive build all kind of infraestructures...Look A-2 between Zaragoza-Madrid...
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Old October 1st, 2011, 04:24 PM   #2415
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Between Zaragoza and Calatayud there are 90 km and 5 mountains passes.
Those mountains passes are very small. Highest about 900m but it is always up and down on the mountain.


In general, from North Madrid (about 100 km) to Burgos (and from Soria to Leon) there is a flat area
From south Madrid to near Despeñaperros, another flat area.
Apart of it, the Ebro and Guadalquivir have a very flat valleys (areas arount Zaragoza and Sevilla)

The rest of territory is absolutely a mountain area. Some of them very high, another very flat... but all mountains

(it is curious... the highest municipality is 1692m over sea level and... the highest peak in that area is 2020m and can be reached by car)
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Old October 1st, 2011, 06:51 PM   #2416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepin0 View Post
Yeah, but Spain is the second most mountainous country of Europe only behind of Switzerland.....so it's very expensive build all kind of infraestructures...Look A-2 between Zaragoza-Madrid...
No, it's not. Spain's average elevation may be high, but this says nothing about the mountainousness of a country. As pointed out many areas of higher elevations in Spain are relatively flat. Norway, Austria, Slovakia, Slovenia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Montenegro, Kosovo and Albania all likely have a higher percentage of their land area with significant altitude differences than Spain.
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Old October 1st, 2011, 08:04 PM   #2417
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The impact of mountains and altitude on highway construction is not that straightforward. Building a road in a wide enough Alpine valley is usually cheap (Swiss A2) if you don't need to bank your highway on a lot of earthworks and viaducts (Italian A22).

Spain has many plateaus, which are as cheap to build as low plains of Central Europe, indeed, sometimes even cheaper because they have some declivity that makes extensive embankment not needed.

As for areas that are merely hilly, there are many options available. Some, like the Italians, will resort - extensively - to tunnel digging instead of earthworks and more curvy roads, which might bring costs down. I realize Spanish design and guidelines allow for more earthworks than it would be the case in other countries where digging tunnels would be preferred.
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Old October 2nd, 2011, 10:55 AM   #2418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solchante View Post
and a cool video
I posted that video before!
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Old October 2nd, 2011, 12:42 PM   #2419
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Video showing the new northbound carriageway. The old road has been renamed to N-IVa.



In the last half of the video you can also see the works for the refurbishment of the A-4 in the province of Ciudad Real.
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Old October 2nd, 2011, 06:53 PM   #2420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNGL View Post
I posted that video before!
¿aqui en el internacional?
no lo habia visto, gracias de todos modos
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