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Old December 29th, 2011, 07:03 PM   #2581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicerón View Post
Welcome to one of the worst Spanish national roads: The N-232 in Burgos province.

And in what aspect it is among the worst? Because it is narrow? Otherwise, it looks nicely maintained.
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Old December 29th, 2011, 08:56 PM   #2582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post
A little question here regarding spanish road capacity planning.

Do you think it would have been wiser to scrap the dubbling of the Girona-Vic part of the C-25 and insted use that money to build a continuous autovia on the Figueras-Olot-Vic axis?

Now, as I understand it, most of the traffic using the Girona-Vic road in made up of transit traffic from France with destinations in northern and central Spain. Thus making this road supporting very little actual commuter traffic between Girona catchment area and Vic catchment area to facilitate the needs for an autovia.

The thing is, trucks always use the fastest/shortes/cheapest roads. And since the Figueras-Olot-Vic alternative is about 20-25 km shorter than the Figueras-Girona-Vic alternative, isn't history just about to repeat itself once truck drivers find out about this much shorter alternative, thus ending up with traffic jams on the Olot-Vic strech which can not easily be upgraded to motorway.

So the qustion is, am I completely wrong here or is this just one more example of the lack of centralized strategic road capacity planning in Spain?
Perhaps It would have been a better option, but I'll try to explain you the actual situation:

The construction of an autovia between Vic and Olot was rejected by the former Socialist Government of Catalonia to preserve the Bas Valley, where inhabitants rejected any kind of new path, and because of Green party was also in the Government. In the other hand, from Vic to Olot (C-37) the owner of the road is the Catalan Government, and from Olot to Figueres is the Spanish Government (A-26 and N-260), so its makes more dificult to create a continuous axis (even thought it's possible, of course.).

When Túnel de Bracons (C-37) was opened, transit traffic of trucks from Vic to Figueres was forbidden to avoid what you said, so probably history will not repeat.



In my opinion what was wrong was the construction of C-25 in the 90's without being an autovia. Catalan Government thought that only local traffic trucks would use this road but the reality was completely different. And this wasn't a centralized decision
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Old December 29th, 2011, 10:28 PM   #2583
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Thanks for the explanation, now I understand the odd reason for C-37 ending in the middle of nowhere. This is so typical of the valley man, NIMBY to the bone aginst all progress of the society.

And no one thought about the fact that the valley was lost the moment they opened the new road, the same road they valley man had been whining about for decades. Way to go valley man
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Old December 29th, 2011, 11:00 PM   #2584
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There are plans to construct Les Preses bypass, connecting the tunnel with A-26 autovia in Olot, but actually the Catalan Government doesn't have money and again some people don't want a road crossing the Garrotxa Volcanic Zone Natural Park.
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Old December 30th, 2011, 12:18 AM   #2585
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The irony of all this is that the valley man together with the inhabitants of Les Preses and Olot joined forced and rallied agianst the autovia, just like they did before them in French, German, Swiss, Italian and Austrian valleys and still we have not learnt anything.

So instead they get horrible traffic going through their nice little pitoresc villages. So they block the trucks, but what about all the cars? For sure people will now try to outsmart everyone else and avoid the traffic jams on C-25 and AP 7 between Vic and Figueras. I wouldn't want to live in Les Preses or Olot when the summer traffic gets going, thats for sure.

Last edited by gincan; December 30th, 2011 at 12:37 AM.
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Old December 30th, 2011, 02:36 PM   #2586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viva_Bulgaria View Post
And in what aspect it is among the worst? Because it is narrow? Otherwise, it looks nicely maintained.
Narrow lanes, no shoulder, twisty, dangerous... and these rocks that make trucks occupy the left lane:


A good national road should allow speeds of 100 km/h most of the time, however the whole N-232 from the junction with the N-629 to Incinillas looks like that. However the average speed there is no more than 40 km/h.

There was a project to adequate the N-232 from Oña to Valdenoceda but it's stopped due to the financial situation.
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Old December 30th, 2011, 03:38 PM   #2587
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Near Monroyo, in the same road (N-232 but near Mediterranean) you can see similar pics.

And... they began to built a new road there but works were stopped.

Current road was made in the middle 19th century and only has been enlarged a little...
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Old December 30th, 2011, 06:28 PM   #2588
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Some historical pics of AP-7 North motorway between Barcelona and Girona, taken 40 years ago in 1971.

First section opened was Barcelona-Granollers on November 3rd, 1969.









Source: La Vanguardia
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Old January 1st, 2012, 04:55 AM   #2589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vignole View Post
Some historical pics of AP-7 North motorway between Barcelona and Girona, taken 40 years ago in 1971.

First section opened was Barcelona-Granollers on November 3rd, 1969.



(...)
Source: La Vanguardia
Nice pics ! I'm pretty confident at the time, under Franco's rule, the roadsigns in Catalonia were all in Spanish ("Gerona" instead of "Girona", "Sardañola del Vallés" instead of "Cerdanyola del Vallès", etc. Am I right ?
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Old January 1st, 2012, 12:02 PM   #2590
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Yes you're right. Here's an example: "Sant Feliu" was written "San Feliu" and also the word "SALIDA"

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Old January 1st, 2012, 02:09 PM   #2591
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Exit numbering ! Does this make Spain the first country in Europe to have started signposting exit numbers?
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Old January 1st, 2012, 02:58 PM   #2592
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I don't know. Actually exit numbers in Spain are not correlative and are numbered as the kilometre of the motorway. But in AP-7, AP-2 and other old tolled motorways are still correlative.
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Old January 1st, 2012, 05:33 PM   #2593
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Tolled motorways in Spain usually have correlative exit numbers since they have less exits than non-tolled motorways.

About the Spanish toponyms being used instead of the local ones - I think that it predates Francoism. I remember seeing pictures of the Basque Country during the early '30s and all signs were written in Spanish. Spanish was the only official language back then - even though many people in rural Catalan/Basque/Galician-speaking regions never used it.
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Old January 1st, 2012, 09:11 PM   #2594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GROBIN View Post
Nice pics ! I'm pretty confident at the time, under Franco's rule, the roadsigns in Catalonia were all in Spanish ("Gerona" instead of "Girona", "Sardañola del Vallés" instead of "Cerdanyola del Vallès", etc. Am I right ?


Towns are written according to official name. Even if they are out of the territory. This is, at Zaragoza you will see Lleida (in Catalan, instead of Lérida), and at Lleida you will see Zaragoza (in Spanish, instead of Saragossa, the Catalan translation).

Catalan is official in Spain since December 1978 and later town names started to be changed.

You will find always the signal depending of the official name in the moment.

Other case is that before 1978 not all Catalan towns had a Spanish name (there were some of them that could be translated)
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Old January 1st, 2012, 09:14 PM   #2595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vignole View Post
I don't know. Actually exit numbers in Spain are not correlative and are numbered as the kilometre of the motorway. But in AP-7, AP-2 and other old tolled motorways are still correlative.



As Ciceron says, mainly in old tolled motorways.
In those ones... one exit, one number. Problem comes when a new exit is made. For instance... they have to create the "exit 9B" between the 9th and the 10th.

With the "autovias" in the 1992, there were so many exits that they chose to write the number of the kilometre point for exit number.

Current new motorways (even tolled or free) do not have so many exits, but they still keep using the number of the kilometre where the exit is as the number.

It is easy because helps you to know distance to exit, as far as new exits do not require "9B".
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Old January 1st, 2012, 09:16 PM   #2596
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
As Ciceron says, mainly in old tolled motorways.
In those ones... one exit, one number. Problem comes when a new exit is made. For instance... they have to create the "exit 9B" between the 9th and the 10th.

With the "autovias" in the 1992, there were so many exits that they chose to write the number of the kilometre point for exit number.

Current new motorways (even tolled or free) do not have so many exits, but they still keep using the number of the kilometre where the exit is as the number.

It is easy because helps you to know distance to exit, as far as new exits do not require "9B".
This is what I've said.
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Old January 1st, 2012, 10:44 PM   #2597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
Towns are written according to official name. Even if they are out of the territory. This is, at Zaragoza you will see Lleida (in Catalan, instead of Lérida), and at Lleida you will see Zaragoza (in Spanish, instead of Saragossa, the Catalan translation).

Catalan is official in Spain since December 1978 and later town names started to be changed.

You will find always the signal depending of the official name in the moment.

Other case is that before 1978 not all Catalan towns had a Spanish name (there were some of them that could be translated)
Sometimes true (for instance, I've seen A Coruña and not La Coruña in Madrid). But following this logic, somewhere around Santander they should indicate Donostia/San Sebastián. I've seen only Pamplona on the Aragón side, going from Jaca to Iruña/Pamplona ...
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"Richtgeschwindigkeit" should be the default system in all EU motorways & expressways & lane indiscipline should be harshly fought! Down with radars on motorways!
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Old January 1st, 2012, 10:44 PM   #2598
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This perhaps should go in French thread but also concerns Spain.

On July 1st, 1976 Perpginan-Border section was opened.

And first cars crossing it in BOTH directions were DUTCH!!!

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Old January 2nd, 2012, 01:20 AM   #2599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GROBIN View Post
Sometimes true (for instance, I've seen A Coruña and not La Coruña in Madrid). But following this logic, somewhere around Santander they should indicate Donostia/San Sebastián. I've seen only Pamplona on the Aragón side, going from Jaca to Iruña/Pamplona ...

There are some cities and towns (mainly the biggest) at Basque country and Navarra which have double official name.

In that case, inside their territories you will see bilingual and outside the most common is to see only in Spanish.

This is, for example, Lleida is the only official name for that town, but Donostia and San Sebastian are both all right for that city from the point of view of administration.
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Old January 2nd, 2012, 05:40 PM   #2600
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1,479 people died on the Spanish roads in 2011. The lowest number in 50 years.

Year | Deaths

1992: 5,035
1993: 4,653
1994: 4,026
1995: 4,220
1996: 3,998
1997: 4,034
1998: 4,289
1999: 4,280
2000: 4,295
2002: 4,026
2003: 4,029
2004: 3,511
2005: 3,332
2006: 3,017
2007: 2,742
2008: 2,181
2009: 1,903
2010: 1,730
2011: 1,479


Source: http://www.rtve.es/noticias/20120102...o/486685.shtml
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