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Old January 16th, 2012, 12:38 PM   #2621
alserrod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElviS77 View Post
Edit: I saw alserrods comment on points on the licence. Did that also include more active police patrolling?
Apart of my last answer... no special control since then. Just a strongest law.
Should you drive correctly, no problem (my last fine on roads, no for parking, was 7 years ago and would not decrease points because the speed was not so fast. Enough for a fine but not for points decreasing).

There are more radars on roads. And... they are clearly pointed!!!! but they still take fines!!!. Most of them are "point radars". This is, they calculate the speed you have in a concrete point, not more. Maybe you will find a new one 50 km ahead.

I have seen people who use brakes just before there and later the start running.

But now they are making (strech radars). They take your plate number and time when you enter in a point and the same several kilometres later.
They will calculate your average speed. You can overspeed for a while... but the average must be the maximum allowed for several kilometres. Should you overspeed there... fine!!!
In the orbital motorway of my city there is one of this radars (there are about ten only in all Spain, it is a new system)... and makes people running 120 only very carefully and later for a long strech they do not run!!


In the day after Christmas (bank holiday), a person in my family was catched 130 km/h when maximum was 120 km/h.

A new fine center located at Leon managed the fine and sent a letter. Considering we were on Christmas days I consider a record that a letter arrived by mail post just seven daily days later!!!!

100 EUR fine. They sent two photos, one of the plate and another one of the car in the exact point as well as a scanned print of the radar calibration (the "avoid" you to ask for those documents because they were the two ones more asked for).

You could pay in a bank or by internet with your credit card.
No points decrease because only 10 km/h more overspeed... but if he payed in less than 15 days with no questions or quarrels... 50% discount.
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Old January 16th, 2012, 03:58 PM   #2622
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That sounds like a common "points system" for drivers. How high are the consequences for driving with a suspended driver's license in Spain?

Also, are any project maps available showing the new sections of A-21 and A-38 that opened in recent months?
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Old January 16th, 2012, 04:59 PM   #2623
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A-21 between Pamplona and the limit with Aragon is completely open

From the limit with Navarra to Jaca has 8 out of 57 km open. They are located just in the east of final Yesa reservoir through Jaca.

Between Jaca-east and Sabiñanigo-west were opened too but they are pointed as A-23.
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Old January 16th, 2012, 05:21 PM   #2624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treichard View Post
That sounds like a common "points system" for drivers. How high are the consequences for driving with a suspended driver's license in Spain?

Single fines do not decrease points.
Other fines will decrease points depending on types.

Three years since last "point movement" will increase two points up to 15 (no fines means 3 years since last increasing, if fines means 3 years since last fine with point decreasing).

It is allowed to make a course about "road safety motivation" (or something like that, I do not know how to translate) that I think will increase 4 points.
I am not sure but I think that you can make it once every two years (and it is not cheap... making it means you had to pay fines and later this course).

People who can certify that "they work on road" (truck drivers, bus drivers, taxi drivers, etc...) can make ONE course extra (or less time for the first one, the other ones) will have the same restrictions than other drivers.

They asked for special law for them because they were on road more time than other drivers and could lose points quickly than other drivers.
Answer was that no fines, no point decreasing... and the correct way was not having special status but driving carefully!!!!!
They just allow them to have an extra with first course to increase points.

No points = Licence expired

Very special faults can take also a licence cancelled for several months (this happens since a long time ago)


Driving without licence... because it was expired and not asked for a new one, because all points lost, because cancelled by a great fault or just because you do not have a licence... means you go directly to prison and in a few hours to the judge.
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Old January 16th, 2012, 06:13 PM   #2625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
There are more radars on roads. And... they are clearly pointed!!!! but they still take fines!!!. Most of them are "point radars". This is, they calculate the speed you have in a concrete point, not more. Maybe you will find a new one 50 km ahead.

I have seen people who use brakes just before there and later the start running.

But now they are making (strech radars). They take your plate number and time when you enter in a point and the same several kilometres later.
They will calculate your average speed. You can overspeed for a while... but the average must be the maximum allowed for several kilometres. Should you overspeed there... fine!!!
Thanks for the reply. Obviously, more speed cameras and average speed checks make a difference, and both are used here in Norway as well. But I guess the rather sophisticated points system is the real change maker. Do you know if it has had an impact on things such as drinking and driving? Something must have changed fairly radically the last few years, because whereas the drop between 92 and 06 can be explained by better cars and roads (and you do see similar improvements in other countries), but halving the number of fatalities on top of that in just five years indicate that something extraordinary has taken place. It's a great thing no matter how it has happened, of course, I'm merely intrigued by it.
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Old January 17th, 2012, 02:06 AM   #2626
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The really change was the points licence system.

People were used to go fast and pay fine if catched. That seems that should you have a lot of money... you could have a free licence to go fast (more than 180 km/h will retire your licence for a while but less... only a great fine but if money is not important for someone)

After july 2006 every driver, does not matter if money or doesn't, could lose points and driving licence.

It was forecasted that radars made measures 9 km/h less just in one mont!!!! (before and after july 2006).
Alcohol is very difficult to take in calculations but I can say that recently is very usual to see restaurants who offers you the wine "by cups" (not the full bottle but only a cup. You can ask for a good wine but only a little quantity). It was very strange before july 2006.
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Old January 17th, 2012, 02:24 AM   #2627
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About points licence I have look for some pages. I am afraid... it is one of a few Spanish administrations with no English version web.

I make a summary in English. Anyway, with google chrome you will translate it easily

- Recovery of points (not all points lost and you want to increase them)
http://www.dgt.es/portal/es/oficina_...%20de%20puntos

A 12 hours specific course (in my city, 700.00 people, there are only two sites to make it), you will increase 6 points your licence. You can make a course only once every two years except professional drivers (one every year).
You can lose points quickly if driving not carefully... but only 6 points after a course every two years... (and really... not free!!!)


Apart of it... every three years with no decreasing means two points more. You can lose today two points... In three years with no more fines you will have the same credit.



- Recovery of licence (when all points lost)
http://www.dgt.es/portal/es/oficina_...20de%20permiso

First of all... waiting SIX MONTHS without making nothing.
After that, asking for a 24 hours course to recover your licence.
Later, passing an official exam for a new licence. It is different than for new drivers (it is supposed you know how to drive a car but maybe...do not know how to drive in a public road!!!)
After all you are allowed to return driving with a 8 points credit
And remember that driving while this period until you have a new licence... you go to prison with no questions.
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Old January 17th, 2012, 02:34 AM   #2628
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(taken from a not official web... the official one is full of pages about it and hard to summarize):

http://www.infocoches.com/informe/ca...ones-6051.html

* Loosing 2 points:

- Stopping anywhere with risk for other cars or pedestrians or... anywhere specific for public transport
- Using a system to find radars
- Having a child with no specific chair
- Drive on a motorbike with a child (less than 12 years old9
- Driving with no lights if neccessary
- Overspeed (on motorways more than 141 km/h when limit is 120. If you drive up to 140 you get a fine but no points decreasing).


* There are fines with 3 and 4 points loosing
........
........


* Loosing 6 points
- Driving with alcohol, more than 0,5 mg/l (not sure but I think that for buses the limit is half... with 0,25 mg/l they will lose 6 points too!!!!)
- Do not want to pass an alcohol o drug control (yeah!, police requires you to pass a control. You are in your right to say you do not colaborate. OK. A fine a 6 points less!!!)
- "Ghost-driving"
- Very hard driving
- Professional driver who overdrive more than 50% time allowed (or takes less than 50% time required for rest)
- More than 50% overspeed. More than 181 km/h on motorways, 151 or 136 on road, depending type of road and 81 on cities (it is more than 50%, limit on cities is 50 km/h)


TWO OF THESE FAULTS MEANS LICENCE TAKEN OFF ONCE AND FOR ALL!!!
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Old January 17th, 2012, 10:38 PM   #2629
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How many Km is the Spanish Motorway system composed of?

Last edited by Perseus26; January 17th, 2012 at 11:10 PM.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 11:44 AM   #2630
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Wikipedia says 15621 km in december 2009. Two years ago. There have been new ones since then but it would take a time to calculate them as far as some of them are tolled, other ones managed by central ministry, other ones by regional governments, etc... and we have to add all of them.

Territory has 506.019 km2 where including Ceuta, Melilla (not motorways there) and Balearic and Canary Islands (only motorway in some islands, other ones few people, few roads).

That makes 0,031 km motorway / 1 km2 territory (dates of 2009)
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Old January 28th, 2012, 03:08 PM   #2631
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Remember this post from July 2010?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicerón View Post
Some good news: Works on the A-1, included in the plan for refurbishing the first-generation autovías. This is a dangerous curve near the village of Cogollos:

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuartango View Post
[...]

Después está la curva de la zona de Cogollos-Valdorros, una de las más peligrosas. Por si alguien se pensaba que iba a ser una mera corrección de trazado o ensanchado de carriles, nada de eso, es en plan bien. He aquí unas fotillos de esta misma tarde:



A ver que hacen con el toro de Osborne.

Google Street View
The bull finally survived This is how the new A-1 looks like:



Picture taken from this video:
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Old January 31st, 2012, 12:16 AM   #2632
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Nice
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Old January 31st, 2012, 02:14 PM   #2633
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Some bits of news (both links in Spanish):

* Fomento has a new minister as of last 22 December--Ana María Pastor Julián, a physician who served as health minister in the last Popular Party government:

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ana_Mar...or_Juli%C3%A1n

I hope she turns out to be better than Blanco, whom I did not like: he was too soapy.

* 2011 was a "historical minimum" in value of contracts awarded by Fomento--€2.8 billion, as opposed to over €10 billion in 2008 (the 2011 value is certainly the lowest in the last ten years, but the article is not clear whether this is the lowest for a longer period):

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/econo...lpepueco_5/Tes
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Old February 10th, 2012, 04:32 PM   #2634
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http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_.../120209-06.htm

3.500 kilometers of new motorways announced for the 2012 - 2024 timeframe, amounting to € 18.7 billion. Also 600 kilometers of new lanes will be constructed along existing motorways. This will put the total motorway network length in Spain to about 19.000 kilometers by 2020/2024.
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Old February 10th, 2012, 05:57 PM   #2635
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Is it really wise to invest so much money in roads, railways, airports or whatever in these times?
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Old February 10th, 2012, 06:11 PM   #2636
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It's not that much money, on an annual basis it's about 50% less than the Netherlands, even though Spain has over 2 times more population and taxpayers.

You get a lot of bang for your buck in Spain. That amount of money would buy only about 600 kilometers of rural motorway in the Netherlands.
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Old February 10th, 2012, 06:18 PM   #2637
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Sure, building in the Spanish desert (but also int he rest of the country) is cheap. But if the results are empty motorways like the AP-7 Cartagena-Almeria, Autovia de la Sagra, ...
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Old February 10th, 2012, 06:37 PM   #2638
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sometimes them are justified in terms of safety, othertimes they put a toll road near a collapsed free road and people still prefers the free one.

but it may be true that there are projects that are not that necessary...

But Autovía de La Sagra is/was supposed to be longer but the "heavier" strech is not on service... I know that the parallel conventional roads gets collapsed on peak hours and there are a lot of accidents there... but I don't know if without that stretch it is justified...
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Old February 10th, 2012, 06:44 PM   #2639
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It's the same old plan being announced again and again everytime a new government comes. Fortunately I think this time Fomento technicians will win the war against politicians and some of those new motorways will never be built.

A-65, A-11 Zamora-Portugal, the middle part of A-60 between Villanubla (near Valladolid) and Santas Martas (near León), A-28, A-81, A-83, A-24... they make no sense. A refurbishment of the current national roads would be much better.
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Old February 12th, 2012, 02:16 PM   #2640
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Some pictures of the recently opened stretch of the A-21:

Liédena-Yesa and back:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobyweb
Pasarela de Liedena


Salida de Liedena con tuneles al fondo


Salida de Yesa con tuneles al fondo


Final de autovía señalado en túnel de Yesa


Final de autovía en kilometro 51 tras tunel de Yesa


Atención Desvio Provisional hacia N-240


Enlace desde N-240 a A-21 sentido Pamplona


Inicio Autovía A-21 sentido Pamplona antes del Puente de Leyre


Bienvenida a la nueva autovía dentro de los túneles


Liedena, canteras y pasarela al fondo desde la salida del tunel de Liedena
Source: http://www.nevasport.com/phorum/read...501534,page=50

A-21 Santa Cilia-Jaca U/C:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALCES
No soy el autor. El espía no esquía y yo no vuelo.

Esto es el famoso aerodromo de Santa Cilia.



Otra vista de Santa Cilia



Una vez pasado Santa Cilia vemos esto: otro barranco que se salta.



Y después esta panorámica: al fondo Jaca, sobre la falda del río. Delante la traza de la Autovía bastante marcada. La carretera actual no se ve pero está a la derecha del río, por las peligrosas umbrías....



Obras a la altura de Ascara. Las pilonas se pueden ver desde la carretera actual



Y esta desde un poco más adelante: ya se ve Jaca con claridad.



Y aquí es donde terminan los trabajos de la Autovía, delante de Jaca y parece que queriendo enfilar el Valle del Aragón. ¿A que parece que algún día llegaremos hasta aquí?



Y para terminar el reportaje, una foto dedicada a los que continúan el viaje hacia los pastos y suaves colinas del Valle del Tena: Conexion de Jaca con la Autovía hacia Sabiñánigo.

This last picture shows the A-23 to Sabiñánigo.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ALCES
Esta semana empieza con la mala noticia del viento. Vamos a animarla un poco con nuevas fotos que nos manda el espia del aire.

En esta se ve el importante viaducto que se está ejecutando para conectar el tramo 8 y el 9 (primero puesto en uso en Aragón).



En esta otra espectacular imagen vemos el inicio del tramo 9 y la curiosa rotonda que han parido los ingenieros de caminos. ¿es rara no?



Finalmente, esta otra foto, poco interesante pero tambien curiosa por la decoración de las rotondas. ¿Quien va a Asso Veral? ¡¡ Que chollo les ha caido a los 4 habitantes de la zona.

Source: http://www.nevasport.com/phorum/read...501534,page=53
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