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Old March 6th, 2012, 09:54 PM   #2681
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Quote:
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@ChrisZwolle Almost every tunnel in Spain is made with TBM. Maybe with the Know-how the TBM option is cheaper there... or more cost-effective... or simply that kind of construction is not compatible with the traffic of the only navigable river in Spain.



If you remember well those bridges... are not really cheap, maybe detouring the motorway to a good place in which a bridge is viable and the construction of the bridge itself are expensiver...
I'd remember that a Skyscraper under construction in Seville and is blocked by the local government because is taller than the Giralda and it "destroy" the skyline of Seville and UNESCO don't allow that.

So, maybe that's a reason for build a tunnel under the Guadalquivir rather than a bridge... maybe.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 10:07 PM   #2682
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Quote:
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@ChrisZwolle Almost every tunnel in Spain is made with TBM. Maybe with the Know-how the TBM option is cheaper there... or more cost-effective... or simply that kind of construction is not compatible with the traffic of the only navigable river in Spain.
A TBM works fine for mountain tunnels, but they tend to be very long in flat terrain, increasing cost. The Netherlands has many immersed tunnels under rivers, which is relatively cheap. Even the new Denmark - Germany tunnel is planned as an immersed tunnel (20 km).
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Old March 6th, 2012, 10:11 PM   #2683
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If you remember well those bridges... are not really cheap, maybe detouring the motorway to a good place in which a bridge is viable and the construction of the bridge itself are expensiver...
Yes I remember the bridges, but there is no way a bridge will cost more than a tunnel, unless you build it in solid gold (or unless you make an archistar design it).
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Old March 6th, 2012, 10:58 PM   #2684
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Well the Guadalquivir river is navigable all the way up to Seville. That means that the bridge has to be tall enough so that cargo ships can pass under it, and that would imply building something like what is being built in Cádiz:

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Old March 7th, 2012, 12:07 AM   #2685
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The first pieces of the 2 Tunnel Boring Machines that will excavate the SE-40 under the Guadalquivir river are arriving to the Port of Seville:



Four tunnels with a diameter of 14 m each will be made by these 2 TBMs.
Does Spain produce such kind of machinery or it is imported?
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Old March 7th, 2012, 11:02 AM   #2686
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There aren't many TMB builders. In Europe we have Herrenknecht and Wirth in Germany and Seli in Italy (this one partially uses components produced by others), then there are Lovat (Canada), Robbins (United States), some in Japan and certainly other less known also in China or elsewhere.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 07:29 PM   #2687
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Does Spain produce such kind of machinery or it is imported?
Those TBM are made by the French company NFM.
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Old March 9th, 2012, 12:23 PM   #2688
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The last few posts in this thread raise the question of why a bored tunnel has been chosen for the SE-40 Guadalquivir crossing, instead of an immersed-tube tunnel (as used not just for multiple subaqueous crossings in the Netherlands but also for the I-95 Fort McHenry tunnel in the USA). I don't think the scale economies associated with bored tunnels in Spain, if indeed they exist, are the whole story. I think geological conditions could be a factor as well.

I have a copy of the proyectos for the SE-40 tunnel. Unfortunately, they are on a disk which is not to hand, and I have discovered that although a few SE-40 proyectos are still online and available for download through SEITT, the tunnel contracts themselves are not, probably because they were put out to tender by Fomento. When I get hold of the tunnel proyectos I will look at the anejos dealing with the tunnel itself and evaluate whether the decision to bore a tunnel was motivated by geological issues.
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Old March 11th, 2012, 05:45 AM   #2689
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Increasing speed limits in Spanish highways

I was thinking here... Spain has a very modern and, for most of it, not that trafficked highway network by European standards.

Hence, shouldn't it consider elevating its blank speed limit on highways from the current 120km/h to 130 or even 140? Urban areas, curvy sectors would obiously keep lower limits, but does it make any sense to restrict major highways to 120???
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Old March 11th, 2012, 01:56 PM   #2690
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I was thinking here... Spain has a very modern and, for most of it, not that trafficked highway network by European standards.

Hence, shouldn't it consider elevating its blank speed limit on highways from the current 120km/h to 130 or even 140? Urban areas, curvy sectors would obiously keep lower limits, but does it make any sense to restrict major highways to 120???
Yep. I don't know if they are going to officially increase the limit up to 140, but they definitely should be laxer when it comes to speed controls in certain highways. They should take the speed cameras out some highways and put them in the most dangerous spots of the secondary roads.
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Old March 11th, 2012, 04:02 PM   #2691
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Yep. I don't know if they are going to officially increase the limit up to 140, but they definitely should be laxer when it comes to speed controls in certain highways. They should take the speed cameras out some highways and put them in the most dangerous spots of the secondary roads.
Two things are different. I'm all for raising speed limits but all for speed cameras as well, especially section control. One of the most annoying things, for me, about driving in Europe is when I'm driving at the speed limit on a 2x2 busy highway, overtaking a lot of trucks in sequence or close by that are going below the speed limit, and some car driver (or even bus driver) keeps flashing or tailgating me because I'm "too low" for his/her standards.
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Old March 11th, 2012, 09:10 PM   #2692
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The main problem with rising speed limits officially in Spain is that many people would take the limit as a "compulsory speed". This is, they see a "140" and they think "I must drive at 140".

We saw this attitude when the 120 limit was restablished after some months in which the limit was lowered to 110. Some of the people who preferred the 110 limit said that they were going to spend more gas driving at 120 Leaving apart whether it's true or not, it's a stupid reason: The 120 speed limit is a maximum limit, you can still drive at 110 if you want to!

As I said on the Spanish forum, I'm all for increasing speeds limits up to 140 and installing a TUTOR system. If we take a look at the 2010 speed map we see in purple in how many stretches the average speed (including trucks and buses) is >120. Therefore increasing the speed limit would only mean legalizing the current situation.

However, I don't think the goverment is willing to do it.
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Old March 11th, 2012, 09:16 PM   #2693
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In my opinion the speed limit should always be driven (if reasonably possible) if there are no passing options. I don't mind people driving 100 km/h on a motorway on the right lane, but I do mind people driving 70 km/h on a two-lane road with no passing options. Those people are just holding up traffic. Sundays are the worst in my opinion. Just today I was driving on a two-lane road with a passing ban and someone drove 10 km/h below the limit, there was a long line of cars behind it.
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Old March 12th, 2012, 12:58 AM   #2694
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Quote:
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The main problem with rising speed limits officially in Spain is that many people would take the limit as a "compulsory speed". This is, they see a "140" and they think "I must drive at 140".

+1

And there is some knowledge about "radar is set to XX km/h so I can drive XX +20% without fine".

Yeah... and with current cars people set the speed to not increase XX+20% or similar.

But radars are more effective now... and they put fine if XX+10% or less.

I saw a fine last Christmas because 131 km/h when limited to 120 km/h......
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Old March 30th, 2012, 09:30 AM   #2695
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I'm right now in Valle Pineta and heading later to Ordesa (torla)

The other day I will drive to France with a short stop in Huesca before heading to Lleida and girona and Perpignan

How is the exact status of the Sanabingo - Huesca road? Does it have many road works? I realize not all Huesca - lleida has been complete as well.
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Old March 30th, 2012, 10:35 AM   #2696
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It is a normal road (two lanes of 3,5m wide and three lanes on mountain pass) but motorway is still under construction.

Only since near Nueno until Huesca is open as a motorway (last kilometre was open one year ago).

The best point to take pictures is at Monrepos mountain pass... looking back. But take care when you arrive. You will be able to stop there the car, but no later and no possibility of return

Should you need further information about any road of the area, just ask. I live in that region.
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Old March 30th, 2012, 05:21 PM   #2697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I'm right now in Valle Pineta and heading later to Ordesa (torla)

The other day I will drive to France with a short stop in Huesca before heading to Lleida and girona and Perpignan

How is the exact status of the Sanabingo - Huesca road? Does it have many road works? I realize not all Huesca - lleida has been complete as well.
You misspelled Sabiñánigo. And, as alserrod said, E07 motorway is U/C there I believe they have restarted works on Congosto del Isuela-Arguis section, and only from Nueno to Huesca is completed. Except the last kilometer around Nueno, is there since 2001. And it's completed between Sabiñánigo and Jaca.
And yes, A-22 is not completed yet, Almacelles bypass is expected to open later this year and Huesca-Siétamo... well, only God knows when will start construction. And remember to go no faster than 70 km/h at the so-called Estrecho Quinto, there are a couple of speed cameras there. One of them has caught more drivers than all other speed cameras in Huesca province combined!
And last but not least: Enjoy the visit to my hometown!
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Old March 30th, 2012, 11:17 PM   #2698
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I'm right now in Valle Pineta and heading later to Ordesa (torla)

The other day I will drive to France with a short stop in Huesca before heading to Lleida and girona and Perpignan

How is the exact status of the Sanabingo - Huesca road? Does it have many road works? I realize not all Huesca - lleida has been complete as well.


Furthermore... Access to Ordesa these days will have restrictions. As far as it is an Unesco heritage, they made recommendations about access there on peak days like Easter or Summer.

You will have to park your car here
http://maps.google.es/?ll=42.624644,...,34.26,,0,4.02
and take a shuttle bus that will run every 15 minutes to the end of the road inside the national park. Bus will go and return and no cars will be inside the park.

In the photo, on the right, the parking, in the middle Torla and at the top, the entrance to the national park. After that mountain, you have the French border (only available by high mountain trekking).

Trekking at Ordesa is very easy and one of the best views you can have at the Pyrenees but you will need trekking shoes and a little equipment (there are people who go there such who goes to the beach). Nothing you cannot find there.

Road N-260 Fiscal-Yebra is still not open. Maybe this year... maybe next year (in 2001 one music group made a song saying they will cheers when whis road will be open). N-260 Janovas-Biescas is not good. After Biescas the road is much better.
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Old April 1st, 2012, 08:11 PM   #2699
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I had an awesome trip.

I could drive all the way to Ordesa

Then I had a change of plans last moment with my friend, we drove to Valencia to meet another person.

The Autovia MUdejar is really an impressive one. It was my first drive Valencia Zaragoza. As for the Huesca and north sector I've indeed seen some cool roadworks. That 1+2 sector is also impressive by any means.

======

Will the new austerity budget shove some highway projects off???
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 05:03 AM   #2700
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Ordesa is awesome

photos plz
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