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Old April 18th, 2012, 09:54 PM   #2721
g.spinoza
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Do all Spanish provinces have a piece of motorway on their territory?
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Old April 18th, 2012, 09:56 PM   #2722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Apart from the islands, I think Cantabria and Extremadura are good contenders for that title. From the mainland provinces, maybe Teruel.



A-2 runs through Soria, it's probably older than A-23 in Teruel.
Cantabria? The A-8 Bilbao-Santander was opened in the early 90's

So it seems to be Teruel.

There are some curious situations in which the province capital had to wait many years to get an autopista or autovía:

-Zamora province got ~50 km of the A-6 up to Benavente in the early 90's but the city had to wait until 2005 to be connected to the A-11.
-Cuenca: A-3 / A-40.
-Soria: A-2 / A-15.
-Huesca: AP-2 / A-23.
-Ciudad Real: A-4 / A-43.
-Cáceres: A-5 / A-66.
-Ávila: AP-6 / AP-51.
-Segovia: AP-6 / AP-61

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Do all Spanish provinces have a piece of motorway on their territory?
Yes, except Ceuta and Melilla but they are "autonomous cities", not provinces.

Even all province capitals are connected to a motorway. In mainland Spain Soria is the only one which, despite of being connected to a motorway, is not connected to the whole network, as there is a stretch of the A-15 still U/C.
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Old April 18th, 2012, 10:06 PM   #2723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicerón View Post
Cantabria? The A-8 Bilbao-Santander was opened in the early 90's
Yes, but most other autonomous communities appear to had their first autovía/autopista in the 1980's or earlier.

* Madrid: A-2 - 1956
* Catalunya: C-32 - 1969
* País Vasco: AP-8 - 1971
* Andalucía: AP-4 - 1972
* Aragón: AP-2 - 1972
* La Rioja: AP-68 - 1976
* Navarra: AP-15 - 1976
* Valenciana: AP-7 - 1976
* Castilla-La Mancha: A-4 - 197?
* Castilla y León: AP-1 - 1978
* Galicia: AP-9 - 1979
* Murcia: A-7 - 198x
* Asturias: AP-66 - 1983
* Cantabria: A-8 - 1990
* Extremadura: A-6 - 1992
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Old April 18th, 2012, 10:09 PM   #2724
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Wow, Spain came to the road building business quite late, but has been doing a nice job.
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Old April 19th, 2012, 04:56 PM   #2725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Yes, but most other autonomous communities appear to had their first autovía/autopista in the 1980's or earlier.

* Madrid: A-2 - 1956
* Catalunya: C-32 - 1969
* País Vasco: AP-8 - 1971
* Andalucía: AP-4 - 1972
* Aragón: AP-2 - 1972
* La Rioja: AP-68 - 1976
* Navarra: AP-15 - 1976
* Valenciana: AP-7 - 1976
* Castilla-La Mancha: A-4 - 197?
* Castilla y León: AP-1 - 1978
* Galicia: AP-9 - 1979
* Murcia: A-7 - 198x
* Asturias: AP-66 - 1983
* Cantabria: A-8 - 1990
* Extremadura: A-6 - 1992
OK, you were talking about regions (autonomous communities)
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Old April 19th, 2012, 05:00 PM   #2726
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicerón View Post
Cantabria? The A-8 Bilbao-Santander was opened in the early 90's

So it seems to be Teruel.

There are some curious situations in which the province capital had to wait many years to get an autopista or autovía:

-Zamora province got ~50 km of the A-6 up to Benavente in the early 90's but the city had to wait until 2005 to be connected to the A-11.
-Cuenca: A-3 / A-40.
-Soria: A-2 / A-15.
-Huesca: AP-2 / A-23.
-Ciudad Real: A-4 / A-43.
-Cáceres: A-5 / A-66.
-Ávila: AP-6 / AP-51.
-Segovia: AP-6 / AP-61
There were several cities with motorways but not linked with the rest of network or only partially linked.

As an example, Santander has motorway since 1995 to Bilbao and it is almost finished to Oviedo (Cantabric sea) but until 2009 they did not finish the motorway to Palencia that links with the rest of motorways in central Spain. So, they could drive by motorways close to the sea, but not to almost all Spain.

Similar situation with other major cities or province capitals. As an example, Logroño is linked to a lot of cities, but nothing to central Spain, Pamplona has to make a "tour" to go to Madrid. Fastest trip will be by the A-15 (Soria), but is on works or on project, depending the strech, and Soria is not fully linked.

Teruel is linked only to Zaragoza and Valencia, but not to Madrid and half of Spain.

And there are several points that can have at least 100 km to a motorway.



Yes, except Ceuta and Melilla but they are "autonomous cities", not provinces.

Even all province capitals are connected to a motorway. In mainland Spain Soria is the only one which, despite of being connected to a motorway, is not connected to the whole network, as there is a stretch of the A-15 still U/C.[/QUOTE]
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Old April 19th, 2012, 05:04 PM   #2727
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Yes, but most other autonomous communities appear to had their first autovía/autopista in the 1980's or earlier.

* Madrid: A-2 - 1956
* Catalunya: C-32 - 1969
* País Vasco: AP-8 - 1971
* Andalucía: AP-4 - 1972
* Aragón: AP-2 - 1972
* La Rioja: AP-68 - 1976
* Navarra: AP-15 - 1976
* Valenciana: AP-7 - 1976
* Castilla-La Mancha: A-4 - 197?
* Castilla y León: AP-1 - 1978
* Galicia: AP-9 - 1979
* Murcia: A-7 - 198x
* Asturias: AP-66 - 1983
* Cantabria: A-8 - 1990
* Extremadura: A-6 - 1992
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Wow, Spain came to the road building business quite late, but has been doing a nice job.

The AP-XX means toll motorway. In the 70s a lot of them were made.
The A-XX are free. In 1991-92 several ones were opened. Too many, specially those that goes from Madrid to several cornes of the country. That's why you find so many in a few years. First ones tolled and next ones were made "low cost" (using old road). They are being now refurbished because there is a lot of difference between those and new ones.
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Old April 19th, 2012, 11:37 PM   #2728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
* Extremadura: A-6 - 1992
Are you sure? I didn't know they had rerouted the A-6! . Probably A-5 (E90 for me).
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Old April 20th, 2012, 03:15 AM   #2729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Yes, but most other autonomous communities appear to had their first autovía/autopista in the 1980's or earlier.

* Madrid: A-2 - 1956
* Catalunya: C-32 - 1969
* País Vasco: AP-8 - 1971
* Andalucía: AP-4 - 1972
* Aragón: AP-2 - 1972
* La Rioja: AP-68 - 1976
* Navarra: AP-15 - 1976
* Valenciana: AP-7 - 1976
* Castilla-La Mancha: A-4 - 197?
* Castilla y León: AP-1 - 1978
* Galicia: AP-9 - 1979
* Murcia: A-7 - 198x
* Asturias: AP-66 - 1983
* Cantabria: A-8 - 1990
* Extremadura: A-6 - 1992
Asturias had her first motorway in 1976 that it connected Oviedo,Gijón and Avilés ,Actually its called the "Y" motorway and it has A-8 (Avilés-Serín-Gijón) and A-66 (Serín-Oviedo) numbering.
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Old April 20th, 2012, 11:02 AM   #2730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sj_Dubosky View Post
Asturias had her first motorway in 1976 that it connected Oviedo,Gijón and Avilés ,Actually its called the "Y" motorway and it has A-8 (Avilés-Serín-Gijón) and A-66 (Serín-Oviedo) numbering.



Thrue. The "Asturian Y" was called.
And from Oviedo until the begining of AP-66 there was not highway until 1992.

It was a small strech but one lane road.

Today, since there (Camponanes), there are two highways, the old one to Oviedo and central Asturias and another one directly to Gijón, avoiding to cross Oviedo.
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Old April 25th, 2012, 05:19 PM   #2731
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Old April 25th, 2012, 08:55 PM   #2732
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This is why you need decent guardrails. A-6, Lugo province.



Luckily it didn't happen in the tunnel with liquefied gas.
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Old April 25th, 2012, 10:32 PM   #2733
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How are guardrails in other countries? Wich is the difference between Spanish ones and others?
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Old April 26th, 2012, 12:57 AM   #2734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
This is why you need decent guardrails. A-6, Lugo province.



Luckily it didn't happen in the tunnel with liquefied gas.


These guardrails works like these was designs. What is the problem?

Spanish legislation brand safety barriers in medium only have to stop for light vehicles. This barrier of the picture, has the same strength as normal concrete barrier.

There are many online videos of trucks invaded the opposite lane after destroying the concrete barrier in the median in European countries.
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Old April 26th, 2012, 02:08 AM   #2735
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And... in the A-23 here (http://maps.google.es/?ll=41.266234,...,23.57,,0,3.56) you must drive 100 km/h maximum because bridge. I asked why and one person told me the problem if crash.
I replied that should the guardrails are prepared for a truck, why making restrictions for a car?. Should a truck destroy the guardrail... as easy as a traffic light or similar in the surrounds...


But it is cheaper for ministry to put a speed restriction signal.
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Old April 26th, 2012, 11:00 AM   #2736
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This truck destroyed not one, but no less than three barriers. Which means these barriers are 100% useless in providing traffic safety for trucking accidents, but I guess they calculate that risk based on the low traffic volumes. This barrier couldn't even stop a truck that was significantly slowed down by the impact on the first and second crash barrier and its drive through the wide median.
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Old April 26th, 2012, 12:39 PM   #2737
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That's true, for this reason I'd like to know what are the differences between other crash barriers. I mean, do you think this accident wouldn't happen in other European country because of the Spanish design?
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Old April 26th, 2012, 12:43 PM   #2738
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There are various classes of crash barriers, H1, H2, H3 and H4.

The oldest class, H1, was introduced in the 1960's and is still widely used on low-trafficked motorways with a relative low risk of truck accidents. H2 is the updated version and is the usually installed along new motorways. H4a/H4b are the most expensive and are capable of withstanding 36 tonne trucks. However, due to their expense and the low amount of such accidents, they are usually only installed along high-risk areas, such as viaducts.
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Old April 26th, 2012, 02:57 PM   #2739
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I see, so then what is wrong is who decided to use this crash barrier instead a safer one, but it's not a problem of Spanish regulations.
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Old April 26th, 2012, 04:08 PM   #2740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
This truck destroyed not one, but no less than three barriers. Which means these barriers are 100% useless in providing traffic safety for trucking accidents, but I guess they calculate that risk based on the low traffic volumes. This barrier couldn't even stop a truck that was significantly slowed down by the impact on the first and second crash barrier and its drive through the wide median.
No, you are wrong in some things. The design of crash barriers is very simple, you only must to read and understand the Spanish legislation. I think you can read Spanish:

CRITERIOS DE EMPLEO DE LAS BARRERAS DE SEGURIDAD METÁLICAS:

http://www.carreteros.org/normativa/...partados/4.htm

TIPOS, COMPORTAMIENTO Y CLASIFICACIÓN DE LAS BARRERAS DE SEGURIDAD METÁLICAS:

http://www.carreteros.org/normativa/...partados/3.htm

SELECCIÓN DEL SISTEMA

http://www.carreteros.org/normativa/...partados/5.htm

CATALOGO DE PRETILES METÁLICOS RECOMENDADOS (crash barriers over bridges)

http://www.carreteros.org/normativa/...o_pretiles.htm

NORMATIVA DE SISTEMAS DE CONTENCIÓN DE LAS CC.AA.

http://www.carreteros.org/normativa/...s/barreras.htm
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