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Old May 29th, 2012, 06:46 PM   #2821
alserrod
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+1

Obsolete... and cause confusion
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Old May 30th, 2012, 04:58 PM   #2822
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And the other way round: a non-motorway road with blue directional signs and kilometer posts.

Plus, they don't match.
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Old June 1st, 2012, 04:44 PM   #2823
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The Moncayo peak seen from the Z-40 in Zaragoza



http://www.panoramio.com/photo/18005630
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Old June 1st, 2012, 04:58 PM   #2824
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Amazing pic.
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Old June 1st, 2012, 05:01 PM   #2825
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It is. How far is that peak from where the photo is taken?
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Old June 1st, 2012, 05:10 PM   #2826
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About 80 km.

This is the place where the picture was taken: http://goo.gl/maps/qCHB
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Old June 1st, 2012, 06:37 PM   #2827
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Great picture, but the zoom does make the landscape more dramatic than it really is. The railroad bridge that look like it is just a few hundred meters away is in reality 2 km away.
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Old June 1st, 2012, 06:59 PM   #2828
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I like that section of Z-40 (The one between A-23 to Teruel and A-68 to... El Burgo de Ebro ). It is like a roller coaster. And just after where the photo was taken starts the speed control section (By the time the photo was taken it wasn't there yet). I don't like where is, it would have been a better idea to put it on N-240 East of Huesca .
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 12:51 AM   #2829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNGL View Post
I like that section of Z-40 (The one between A-23 to Teruel and A-68 to... El Burgo de Ebro ). It is like a roller coaster. And just after where the photo was taken starts the speed control section (By the time the photo was taken it wasn't there yet). I don't like where is, it would have been a better idea to put it on N-240 East of Huesca .


It is not possible.

The radar per section is only available where there are two complete pannels no more than 5 km one to other. This is one of the few places where it can apply at Aragon.

They do not appear in the Google photo because it is 4 years old.
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 12:58 AM   #2830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicerón View Post
The Moncayo peak seen from the Z-40 in Zaragoza



http://www.panoramio.com/photo/18005630


Ciceron... the photo is...... no words to say.

I've driven there too much but never possible to have that image. In fact, just one kilometre before there is an Ikea centre and the view is not as good because the hills.

The motorway is less than 300 m osl. The peak (Moncayo) is 2315 (have climbed in summer... and be sure you can be hot in your city and a little snow there)

It is a "magic" mountains because it has no other mountains in front of it. It is the highest in that mountain range... and since the peak, can be seen a lot of territory.

The railway in the left is the Zaragoza by-pass high speed railway. Only 5 trains run there monday to friday excluding summer, Easter, Christmas... They are Madrid-Barcelona non-stop (three in early morning, one at afternoon and one at evening). The rest of trains have stop at Zaragoza.

Railway is designed to run 350 km/h. That is why it is not a roller coaster. The motorway seems a roller coaster but really... there is no problem to run 120 km/h there with no security problems.



I always have though that mountain was magic. It is not high but it has something special...
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 01:03 AM   #2831
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And... another point that loves too much to me for a Moncayo look while driving...

It is in the A-2, going to Madrid, going down after La Muela. The A-2 turns for a while to the east and it is the point you have in front of you. There are many places to see it again, but there, you have in front of you.

A link of the Moncayo since the A-2

https://maps.google.es/?ll=41.481319...28.38,,0,11.97
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 11:21 AM   #2832
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I have seen the Moncayo from here. Best time is in winter, but I have seen it in May!
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 12:15 PM   #2833
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicerón View Post
The Moncayo peak seen from the Z-40 in Zaragoza



http://www.panoramio.com/photo/18005630
It remembers the Italian Dolomites seen from the A23 south of Udine.
However, why a so wide median? It's planned to be 3x2?
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 05:40 PM   #2834
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I do not think so... traffic is not high for a 3x2 motorway. As you can see... away you have a motorway junction and lanes have been going down from 4 to 2 as you come.


The Moncayo is not as Dolomiti, be sure... but it has the special point that in about 30 km you go down from 2300 m to only 400m... so the picture you can see from the summit is great.
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 08:36 PM   #2835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
It remembers the Italian Dolomites seen from the A23 south of Udine.
However, why a so wide median? It's planned to be 3x2?
Most new motorways in Spain are built with a 10 m wide median, except in places where the land is more expensive.

Even in the province of Soria, with a population density of less than 10 people per square km, the new A-15 has been built with a 10 m median. Still, its construction cost is about €3M per km.

Now that I remember, we discussed about it one year ago :
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicerón View Post
Still too much for such a low forecasted traffic IMO. The cost would be significantly reduced by simply decreasing the width of the median from 10 m to 3 or 2 m ("mediana estricta") or even less (a simple New Jersey barrier).

Most of the autopistas/autovías are designed with a 10 m wide median to leave enough space for a future widening to 2x3 unless the forecasted traffic is too low, but the highway design rules are too generous. Many of these new highways will never reach a traffic level high enough to need 3 lanes per direction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicerón View Post
But imagine the money that could be saved on bridges, underpasses, expropiation of private properties and land-moving if the median was only 2 m wide. I'm not talking about worse alingment or desing, it's only the median. The money would be spent more efficiently. This is especially important in Extremadura, which is the poorest Spanish region and the money to build the EX-A1 has come from EU funds, but it should be applied in the whole country.

For instance, in France, from what I have seen, new Autoroutes (A75) are built with only a barrier as a median.
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 09:01 PM   #2836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
It remembers the Italian Dolomites seen from the A23 south of Udine.
Incidentally, the motorway that is at the background is also numbered A-23.
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 10:19 PM   #2837
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Yeah... you can see a cross with another motorway. Going to the right you get in a Zaragoza neighbourhood (speed limited to 50) and going to the left it is the motorway to Teruel and Valencia. The km. 0 is located at Sagunto and... it is the A-23.

While Zaragoza orbital has no numeration (it is Z-40 for all of them) but it comes from Sagunto, and continues north until Nueno... and later the strech Sabiñanigo-Jaca is named also A-23. It will finish there, at Jaca. Nueno-Jaca is under works.


But really... it is the A-23, and of course, looking from the A-23 there and turning 90º you will see the same image!!!!!


A very nice coincidence!
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Old June 11th, 2012, 11:34 AM   #2838
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Ana Pastor will inaugurate the second and final phase of the new A-4 through the Despeñaperros today.

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Old June 11th, 2012, 06:30 PM   #2839
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So it will be 2x3?
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Old June 11th, 2012, 08:35 PM   #2840
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It will be the 8th world marvellous...... I passed it first time in 2002 and show what a horrible highway was. They had used one old lane and a new one in both directions.

New one was restricted to 80, and old one to 50 (going 60 could be a crash).

You can compare in Chris' graphics the difference between old and new lanes...
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