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Old August 30th, 2012, 04:49 PM   #3001
ChrisZwolle
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You think Ana Pastor has an account here?
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Old August 30th, 2012, 05:19 PM   #3002
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Quote:
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You think Ana Pastor has an account here?
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Old August 30th, 2012, 06:17 PM   #3003
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Quote:
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SSSsshshhsss… Don't tell to our politicians that kind of ideas which can learn quickly… plz ssssshhh…


+1

Almost all last tolled motorways have been made because political interest instead of network interest.
Later, they are on bankrupt and ask for money...


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You think Ana Pastor has an account here?

She is the dissapeared minister. As well as there is no new works, few things to open and few things under construction to visit... it is the minister who appears less on media
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Old August 30th, 2012, 09:40 PM   #3004
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There are motorways that could serve a more important function if huge residential developments were to be build in the area, such as CM-43 (Autovía de la Sagra), which AADT is lingering under 10,000 vpd because of the real estate crash. That is not the case of these toll roads. The section of AP-41 that runs through Madrid province has not one but two toll-free alternatives: A-42 to the east, and M-407 even closer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CNGL View Post
Don't forget that AP-41 was originally intended to be a long, tolled motorway, running from R-5 near Arroyomolinos to E05/A-4 somewhere East of Cordova (Possibly Montoro). A-41 from Ciudad Real and Puertollano was to be a toll-free section of the motorway. However, the plans have been scrapped due to enviromental reasons (Natura 2000 thing, like many other projects around Europe), and only the Arroyomolinos-Mocejón section and the toll-free A-41 got built.

I like the name of Ciudad Real, it can be translated to "Royal City".
What doesn't make more much sense given that TO-22 ends where future motorway Toledo - Cordova should begin. Was Fomento building A-41, people would still choose A-42.
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Old August 30th, 2012, 09:45 PM   #3005
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Toledo-Cordoba is not considered already on Fomento plans.

With refurbishment of A-4 seems that it is enought.
Furthermore... Madrid-Sevilla is faster via Merida (A-5)
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Old August 30th, 2012, 09:56 PM   #3006
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Don't talk about A-4.

Every time someone talk about A-4 or Madrid - Sevilla via Mérida I remember the new Despeñaperros and all the tons money spent in a few kilometers… and it comes to my head that strumatic hwy called A-31 Almansa - Alicante.
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Old August 30th, 2012, 11:52 PM   #3007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
The section of AP-41 that runs through Madrid province has not one but two toll-free alternatives: A-42 to the east, and M-407 even closer.
And the section of AP-41 that runs through Toledo is between CM-41 and A-42.
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Old August 30th, 2012, 11:57 PM   #3008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peines View Post
Don't talk about A-4.

Every time someone talk about A-4 or Madrid - Sevilla via Mérida I remember the new Despeñaperros and all the tons money spent in a few kilometers… and it comes to my head that strumatic hwy called A-31 Almansa - Alicante.
Despeñaperros bypass was way more necessary than refurbishing A-31.
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Old August 31st, 2012, 12:15 AM   #3009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
Despeñaperros bypass was way more necessary than refurbishing A-31.
But… I was necessary to make all new…?

Having the combo A-5 + A-66 for go from Madrid to Seville…?

I think that with only making a new Madrid - Seville carriageway would had been enough and cheaper.

It was necessary for make votes, only for that.

(Yes, Despeñaperros was a shit, I know, I have family in Jaen…)
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Old August 31st, 2012, 12:38 AM   #3010
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Not all the traffic is to Sevilla. For instance... going to Algeciras or Almeria (ferries to Morocco) requires taking the exit just after that pass
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Old August 31st, 2012, 03:35 PM   #3011
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Traffic to Córdoba, Málaga, Jaén or Granada uses that pass too. The tunnels were really necessary. A-31 has sharp corners and tight acceleration lanes, but that's nothing compared with what Despeñaperros was. I regularly use A-31 and it's no big deal, most of the time you can drive 120 km/h and pavement is not bad at all. Plus, the scenery is really good, especially driving eastbound.

These first-generation autovías used to be a pain in the ass until the early 2000s, because everything (corners, shoulders, acceleration or deceleration lanes, pavement, signage) was substandard and there was no maintenance at all. However, the situation is a lot better now. Recession is sure affecting maintenance, but I wouldn't say motorways such as A-31 are a bad driving experience.
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Old August 31st, 2012, 05:10 PM   #3012
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Mejor salgo de aqui haciendo la croqueta…
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Old August 31st, 2012, 06:46 PM   #3013
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Despeñaperros pass was a lot worse than A-31, if you prefer it this way. You were lucky to average 60 km/h. In most of A-31 you can drive 120.
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Old August 31st, 2012, 07:12 PM   #3014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peines View Post
Mejor salgo de aqui haciendo la croqueta…
¿Qué?
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Old August 31st, 2012, 07:31 PM   #3015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
¿Qué?
He is going to "roll away" hahaha
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Old August 31st, 2012, 10:25 PM   #3016
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22 pics of CM-42 or Autovía de los Viñedos (can be translated as Motorway of the Vineyards) from Toledo to junction with A-4. It's a regional shadow-tolled motorway of Castile-La Mancha.

image hosted on flickr

CM-42 01 by Vignole, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CM-42 02 by Vignole, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CM-42 03 by Vignole, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CM-42 04 by Vignole, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CM-42 05 by Vignole, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CM-42 06 by Vignole, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CM-42 07 by Vignole, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CM-42 08 by Vignole, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CM-42 09 by Vignole, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CM-42 10 by Vignole, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CM-42 11 by Vignole, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CM-42 12 by Vignole, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CM-42 13 by Vignole, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CM-42 14 by Vignole, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CM-42 15 by Vignole, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CM-42 16 by Vignole, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CM-42 17 by Vignole, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CM-42 18 by Vignole, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CM-42 19 by Vignole, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CM-42 20 by Vignole, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CM-42 21 by Vignole, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CM-42 22 by Vignole, on Flickr
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Old August 31st, 2012, 11:14 PM   #3017
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I use that motorway to go to Levante (CM-42 + A-43 + A-3/A-31) I don't know why it's not that known to avoid the traffic jams of the A-3 in holidays...
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Old September 1st, 2012, 12:14 AM   #3018
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Neat pictures, thanks!

It is also a good alternate route to the south. There are some 20 extra km, but it may be worth it, as A-4 is far worse.
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Old September 1st, 2012, 01:02 AM   #3019
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there are too many routes, sometimes motorways, sometimes good roads, that can be a very good alternative for main routes... and not very used
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Old September 1st, 2012, 07:11 PM   #3020
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vignole View Post
Part II

image hosted on flickr

R-2 36 by Vignole, on Flickr
It looks like there isn’t any manual booth on toll plazas along R-2 motorway anymore, in order to reduce operating costs. So, toll fares can’t be paid with cash, only credit cards or the electronic toll-collection system are allowed, at least for some hours a day. Am I wrong?



By the way, toll rates have gone up today on all Spanish toll roads as a result of a new VAT increment.

Regards.
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