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Old September 1st, 2012, 08:06 PM   #3021
OriK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miliar View Post
It looks like there isn’t any manual booth on toll plazas along R-2 motorway anymore, in order to reduce operating costs. So, toll fares can’t be paid with cash, only credit cards or the electronic toll-collection system are allowed, at least for some hours a day. Am I wrong?

By the way, toll rates have gone up today on all Spanish toll roads as a result of a new VAT increment.

Regards.
That's only to say to the drivers what those symbols mean... but I agree, it's quite confusing...

As you can see in the following photo you can also choose MANUAL.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7881913530/

Last edited by OriK; September 1st, 2012 at 08:13 PM.
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Old September 1st, 2012, 08:33 PM   #3022
miliar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OriK View Post
That's only to say to the drivers what those symbols mean... but I agree, it's quite confusing...

As you can see in the following photo you can also choose MANUAL.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7881913530/
Thanks. I didn't realized ... The sign only refers to ETC and credit-card lanes, although there are manual booths too. Anyway, this change is a bit suspicious.
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Old September 1st, 2012, 08:43 PM   #3023
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Another question of that pic. Why if you go to Madrid Norte it says "aeropuerto" and to Madrid Sur it appears an icon of an airplane?
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Old September 1st, 2012, 08:55 PM   #3024
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It's a trap.

Left Aeropuerto (toll).
Right Aeropuerto (non-toll).

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Old September 2nd, 2012, 01:18 PM   #3025
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Right, there are two ways if you want to go to the airport. I think that R-2/M-12 alternative is worthy to arrive to T4 terminal, and A-2/M-14 is better to go to the other terminals.

New T4 terminal is quite far away from the other terminals, so that sometimes it is difficult to follow guide signs towards the airport.
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 01:30 PM   #3026
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All toll areas must have at least one person for any incident or problem to pay, as well as it must be possible to pay with a ticket.

Other way is that you will find too many cabins and no people there. But it must be a person for giving tickets if system breaks down and for the payment also if system breaks down or just for paying in cahs.

In exits with little traffic it is usual that the only one person is in the cabin located in the middle. He will be only for payment. Cars entering the motorway will take automatically the ticket, but should it fails, he will be able to open a window and giving in hand one per one the ticket.

I've used all the exits in the Aragonese part of AP-2 and some of them have really few, few, few traffic... but they never avoid to have one person there.

It is said that depending on working shifts, you can use the time between cars to study something or reading a lot of books.
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 01:45 PM   #3027
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miliar View Post




Right, there are two ways if you want to go to the airport. I think that R-2/M-12 alternative is worthy to arrive to T4 terminal, and A-2/M-14 is better to go to the other terminals.

New T4 terminal is quite far away from the other terminals, so that sometimes it is difficult to follow guide signs towards the airport.
With decreasing retentions Madrid accesses do not need to drive on the tollway "Radiales".

R-2/M-50 to Airport T1 (Tollway) 22,6 km http://goo.gl/maps/zJ1iv

R-2/M-50 to Airport T4 (Tollway) 17,7 km http://goo.gl/maps/Jk1Jw

R-2/M-50 to Airport T1 (Freeway) 17,5 km http://goo.gl/maps/uj90S

R-2/M-50 to Airport T4 (Freeway) 22,5 km http://goo.gl/maps/9pbEJ

Last edited by arriaca; September 2nd, 2012 at 01:51 PM.
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 02:12 PM   #3028
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
All toll areas must have at least one person for any incident or problem to pay, as well as it must be possible to pay with a ticket.

Other way is that you will find too many cabins and no people there. But it must be a person for giving tickets if system breaks down and for the payment also if system breaks down or just for paying in cahs.

In exits with little traffic it is usual that the only one person is in the cabin located in the middle. He will be only for payment. Cars entering the motorway will take automatically the ticket, but should it fails, he will be able to open a window and giving in hand one per one the ticket.

I've used all the exits in the Aragonese part of AP-2 and some of them have really few, few, few traffic... but they never avoid to have one person there.

It is said that depending on working shifts, you can use the time between cars to study something or reading a lot of books.
This is usual in Spain, but not everywhere. As an example, there aren't manual booths at night on Dulles Toll Road (VA SR 267), the highway that allows to go to Washington international airport.

"Full Service: These lanes have toll booths. The Main Plaza along the Toll Road is staffed 24/7 and the Ramp Plazas are staffed from 5:30am until 9:30pm. Cash, exact change, E-ZPass and E-ZPass Flex are accepted. If you have exact change, you may place it directly in the collection machine. After staffed hours, this lane becomes Exact Change and exact fare is required".

http://www.metwashairports.com/tollroad/1145.htm

Perhaps there is somebody in the office and you can call him if you have a problem, but there is nobody in the booth.
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 02:24 PM   #3029
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arriaca View Post
With decreasing retentions Madrid accesses do not need to drive on the tollway "Radiales".

R-2/M-50 to Airport T1 (Tollway) 22,6 km http://goo.gl/maps/zJ1iv

R-2/M-50 to Airport T4 (Tollway) 17,7 km http://goo.gl/maps/Jk1Jw

R-2/M-50 to Airport T1 (Freeway) 17,5 km http://goo.gl/maps/uj90S

R-2/M-50 to Airport T4 (Freeway) 22,5 km http://goo.gl/maps/9pbEJ
OK. I assume that if I'm driving along R-2, there is heavy traffic on A-2. Of course, it's one's decision.

R-2/M-50 to Airport T4 (Tollway) 17,7 km, 13 min, 1,00 + 0,95 = 1,95 € (rush hour)

R-2/M-50 to Airport T4 (Freeway) 22,5 km, 19 min, 0,00 €

[Toll fares from Taracena (A-2) to M-50 (southbound) amount 5,70 €]
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 04:23 PM   #3030
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From A-2 km 64 to T4:

- Via R-2: 61km & 00:37h (TOLL).
- Via A-2 + M-14 : 59km & 00:46h (FREE).
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 04:32 PM   #3031
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AADT on AP-41 is below 1000...
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 04:46 PM   #3032
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miliar View Post
OK. I assume that if I'm driving along R-2, there is heavy traffic on A-2. Of course, it's one's decision.

R-2/M-50 to Airport T4 (Tollway) 17,7 km, 13 min, 1,00 + 0,95 = 1,95 € (rush hour)

R-2/M-50 to Airport T4 (Freeway) 22,5 km, 19 min, 0,00 €

[Toll fares from Taracena (A-2) to M-50 (southbound) amount 5,70 €]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peines View Post


From A-2 km 64 to T4:

- Via R-2: 61km & 00:37h (TOLL).
- Via A-2 + M-14 : 59km & 00:46h (FREE).
With new works by improving the A2, which are about to end, the only reason to go to the airport by the R2 is avoid traffic jams, and with the decline of traffic there is very little. In terms of time, there is little difference, and I think it's easier to use the A2 (plus you avoid the passage of three toll booths, both Taracena as if you use another entry)
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 04:55 PM   #3033
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plus going thru A-2 you will spend less gas: Every stop (every toll plaza) is more gas consumption.

So, by toll motorway you pay extra for the toll and extra for stop the car.
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 08:59 PM   #3034
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Some statistics about traffic jams throughout the metropolitan area of Madrid at rush hours by RACC (Catalonian Drivers Association).

Average traffic speed at different hours of the day:


http://imagenes.racc.es/pub/ficheros...q_9adadbd7.pdf

And a friendlier version of the traffic congestion map at different hours of the day:

http://www.elpais.com/static/portadas/mapa/trafico.html

According to this document, users of A-2 spend a mean value of 16,1 minutes a day due to congestion. Only A-42 and beltways would be worse. However, at rush hour (8 to 9 AM) they spend 48 minutes. In this case only East section of M-30 is worse.

I imagine that this situation is now better as the analysis was carried out three years ago. Meanwhile, AADT has decreased and some works are adding a new lane on this highway from Torrejon de Ardoz to Guadalajara. Anyway, there are still traffic jams westbound at the junction with routes M-40 and M-14, because so many drivers want to take this exit and there is only one exit lane. I have some workmates who live along this route and they have some problems at rush hours. I would not underestimate congestion on A-2.
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 10:19 PM   #3035
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in A-42 it is much better now, but I wonder what will happen when the ecconomy starts to grow again as the public transportation hasn't been improved at all... but probably the commuter train network in Illescas will arrive earlier than the recovery :P

I think the solution to the jams in Madrid are macro-parkings near those roads with a good connection to the public transportation network...
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 11:38 PM   #3036
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Do you mean Park'n'ride...?
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 11:39 PM   #3037
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miliar View Post


Some statistics about traffic jams throughout the metropolitan area of Madrid at rush hours by RACC (Catalonian Drivers Association).

Average traffic speed at different hours of the day:


http://imagenes.racc.es/pub/ficheros...q_9adadbd7.pdf

And a friendlier version of the traffic congestion map at different hours of the day:

http://www.elpais.com/static/portadas/mapa/trafico.html

According to this document, users of A-2 spend a mean value of 16,1 minutes a day due to congestion. Only A-42 and beltways would be worse. However, at rush hour (8 to 9 AM) they spend 48 minutes. In this case only East section of M-30 is worse.

I imagine that this situation is now better as the analysis was carried out three years ago. Meanwhile, AADT has decreased and some works are adding a new lane on this highway from Torrejon de Ardoz to Guadalajara. Anyway, there are still traffic jams westbound at the junction with routes M-40 and M-14, because so many drivers want to take this exit and there is only one exit lane. I have some workmates who live along this route and they have some problems at rush hours. I would not underestimate congestion on A-2.
Well, you've just chosen the worst possible year. These data are RACC in 2009 just before the crisis. Since then traffic has fallen in a brutal way. Literally every morning no jams. Although slow-running sections. But I doubt, involving more than five minutes on a journey with little traffic. It makes me very sad decline that has occurred. And now they are being solved points where withholding occurred.
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 11:49 PM   #3038
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Traffic is a good barometer of the economy.
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 12:29 AM   #3039
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peines View Post
Do you mean Park'n'ride...?
Exactly, that's what i mean... I understand that I live in a small town and it isn't possible to have a frequent public transport service to everywhere... (although it could be better) but there are tons of small towns like me and those P+R should be a must....

Last edited by OriK; September 3rd, 2012 at 02:21 AM.
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 04:09 PM   #3040
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Quote:
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Exactly, that's what i mean... I understand that I live in a small town and it isn't possible to have a frequent public transport service to everywhere... (although it could be better) but there are tons of small towns like me and those P+R should be a must....
Our urban sprawl patterns make it very difficult to have a really efficient public transport system. Inside cities it is OK, but moving to and from then, and especially between smaller cities in big metro areas, is slow and unefficient.
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