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Old September 6th, 2012, 07:41 PM   #3081
OriK
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Exactly... it's absurd how in some places they made an almost parallel new motorway instead of renegociating the concession (or buying it).
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Old September 6th, 2012, 08:08 PM   #3082
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It's probably cheaper to build a new autovía than to buy out the concessionaire's contract.
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Old September 6th, 2012, 09:38 PM   #3083
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Yes, sometimes it is cheaper to build a new road. But it only makes sense from the economical point of view. Otherwise it is a waste of space and resources, not to mention environmental issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OriK View Post
Exactly... it's absurd how in some places they made an almost parallel new motorway instead of renegociating the concession (or buying it).
Fortunately there are not many cases like this. If two motorways (a tolled one and a toll-free one) go more or less parallel (<10 km apart) they have different functions. For example, for traffic driving A-7 in Tarragona AP-7 is not an alternative, and vice versa.
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Old September 6th, 2012, 10:15 PM   #3084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peines View Post
Yeah… I'm pretty sure every spanish truck driver has enough money for pay toll and also eat, maintain their family and also, the mortgage.

(Sarcasm mode Off)
The government could pay part of the tolls, maybe as a sort of shadow toll.
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Old September 6th, 2012, 11:35 PM   #3085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
The government could pay part of the tolls, maybe as a sort of shadow toll.
They do this in some motorways. But current budgets suggest more tolls and less free roads.
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Old September 6th, 2012, 11:36 PM   #3086
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
I hope never, for Spain's finances...


+1

There is a way to avoid part of toll. Should any one is going to travel there can make a question in the Spanish forum, where we have gave too many alternatives for a lot of motorways... or writting here and will try to translate and post there
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Old September 6th, 2012, 11:37 PM   #3087
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
It's probably cheaper to build a new autovía than to buy out the concessionaire's contract.
I think AP-68 ends contract on 2021 and Government is waiting until its end instead of building a new motorway through N-232
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Old September 7th, 2012, 12:15 AM   #3088
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As of today, almost all toll contracts have been renewed when they were about to expire. I don't think AP-68 will be an exception.
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Old September 7th, 2012, 12:18 AM   #3089
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All renovations have been because any improvement in the motorway... the government can choose between asking more improvements, no renovations, or a partial renovement so part of motorway will be free and part will remain tolled.

PS. There is only 5 km in Galicia not renewed.
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Old September 7th, 2012, 12:40 AM   #3090
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And AP-7 Mollet-El Papiol (Barcelona bypass) was rescued a decade ago if I remember correctly. Same with Marbella bypass, though I may be wrong.
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Old September 7th, 2012, 12:46 AM   #3091
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and 3,5 km of AP-68 close to Zaragoza
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Old September 7th, 2012, 12:46 AM   #3092
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As Verreme says, I think that they will expand the concession when it is about to expire. Just remember that this is what happened to AP-68... maybe last year?
What is beyond any doubt is that something must be done. The alternative is an infamous "autovía" (naming it like that is a cruel joke). I'm not tired of saying it... infamous and unnecesarily dangerous.

Last edited by Shulamithie; September 7th, 2012 at 12:52 AM.
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Old September 7th, 2012, 01:09 AM   #3093
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In the 2024 plan, for instance, A-68 should be free motorway.

AP-68 ends contract in 2021 so the most easy for government is....
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Old September 7th, 2012, 05:16 PM   #3094
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Well, I don't think much of the 2024 plans will be fulfilled.
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Old September 7th, 2012, 05:53 PM   #3095
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2024 is so far away... the only near things are accidents and no governments have done anything to solve the problem. The 30 km-long continuous line and the 80 km/h limitation are a botch.
In year 2025 I'll say:
2050 is so far away... the only near things are accidents and no governments have done anything to solve the problem. The 30 km-long continuous line and the 80 km/h limitation are a botch.
Oh...
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Old September 7th, 2012, 06:24 PM   #3096
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Too many words... few works
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Old September 7th, 2012, 06:39 PM   #3097
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You can't complain about the current network though.

Only the remaining missing links of A-7 in Andalucía, A-8 along the north coast and A-66 are really important for the completion of the national network if you ask me. Routes like A-11, A-12 and A-15 are nice, but more of a luxury.
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Old September 7th, 2012, 07:04 PM   #3098
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From my point of view there are some roads with a mountain pass, difficult streches or crossing important towns and...instead of working in a new road strech there for several kilometres and keeping 100 km/h with the current traffic, they have work on a motorway almost always!!

Problems?

1- There are still some roads very busied where the only alternative is a tolled motorway (alternative since a long time ago and for several years more... at least)

2- Sometimes you can find part of a very good motorway and later a road that could be refurbished enterely

A-12 and N-120 between Logroño and Burgos is a good example.
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Old September 7th, 2012, 07:21 PM   #3099
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We oversized our needs on the good years and now we complain we got too much of all things everywhere, to the point that now I'm not focused on any road project. A-22 is almost completed (And it will remain as that for centuries since the last section has not started works yet), and E07 and A-21 are at idle. Now I'm focusing on the completion of the 2nd phase of "the thing" (tram) line in Zaragoza.
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Old September 7th, 2012, 08:59 PM   #3100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
N-II may have the highest truck share of any major road in Europe.

Check it out: 71% of the traffic on N-II are trucks.


In absolute numbers, N-II carries about 5 times more trucks than the motorway AP-2.
The example you show is quite interesting. Perhaps it is an extreme case, but this situation is very usual. It is caused by the fact that toll motorways are not worthy for truck drivers unless there is a mountain pass or some long sloped sections that highly increase fuel consumption when they drive through alternative road. In these cases, grades on the motorway are lower as these type of route use to include long bridges and tunnels.
As this area is so flat, truck drivers prefer N-II to AP-2. On the other hand, car drivers don’t want to manage with never-end columns of lorries, that delay their journey, and choose the toll motorway. As a result, truck share on N-II is higher and higher.

If we take the overall value traffic adding vehicles on N-II (station E-18) and AP-2 (station Z-502) total AADT equals 22811 vehicles, 7738 of them are trucks. So the overall truck share is equal to 34%. This percentaje is not too high, if we take into account that there is a high speed railway parallel to these roads and many passangers prefer this mean of transport for long-distance trips. In addition to this, aeroplane has been historically chosen for trips between the two most populated metropolitan areas of Spain, Madrid and Barcelona, although more and more passengers now prefer railway to aeroplane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
In some countries they would enforce a ban on through trucks like in Germany.
It is a hard rule, but not new and unsual. In fact, through hazmat trucks must use Spanish toll motorways instead of alternative roads in accordance with traffic rules. A special network (RIMP), which is annually updated, has been defined for hazmat transportation. Of course, it includes most of toll motorways even if there is an alternative dual-carriage way. For example, these lorries must take R-2, R-3, R-4 and R-5 from 6 a.m. to midnight, and A-42 is not included in this network. Of course, they have to use AP-2 instead of N-II between Zaragoza and Lérida. The aim of this rule is risk prevention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
I think AP-68 ends contract on 2021 and Government is waiting until its end instead of building a new motorway through N-232
If I’m not wrong, concession contract of AP-68 will expire on November 10th, 2026. In the case of AP-1, current expiration date is November 31st, 2018. Anyway, we don’t know what will happen afterwards. I’m afraid that toll on these routes will not be removed. Please look at the case of A-8 between Bilbao and Behovia.

Quote:
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And AP-7 Mollet-El Papiol (Barcelona bypass) was rescued a decade ago if I remember correctly. Same with Marbella bypass, though I may be wrong.
Construction of Marbella by-pass was carried out before the construction of the toll motorway. This section, as Estepona and Benalmadena by-passes, was finally included in the concession just for exploitation.

http://hemeroteca.abc.es/nav/Navigat...02/04/052.html

http://hemeroteca.abc.es/nav/Navigat...02/03/046.html
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