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Old September 10th, 2012, 05:23 PM   #3121
OriK
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You are right... Castilla-La Mancha follows the standard but we all know that each autonomy does whatever they want

Red is supposed to be "conventional road of the primary network" but according to the numeration it's obvious that this is not the case... maybe it was and the autonomy kept the colour.
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Old September 10th, 2012, 05:31 PM   #3122
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Would you say A-XXX roads…???
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Old September 10th, 2012, 08:16 PM   #3123
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I think road numbering schemes should be detached from jurisdictional quarrels.

Spain has a nice color scheme but it bombs on the mess of codes, prefixes and what else.
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Old September 10th, 2012, 08:39 PM   #3124
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But if I understood the last post about the numbering system, the color scheme isn't even consistent from one Autonomous Community to another?
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Old September 10th, 2012, 09:02 PM   #3125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
But if I understood the last post about the numbering system, the color scheme isn't even consistent from one Autonomous Community to another?


In the case of prefixes my proposal is
N-XXX for national network (avoiding E-XXX because can be confused with European network)

YY-XXX (or YY-XX) for regional network. Depending on the level of network, one colour or other

So we should have:

State:
AP for tolled motorways,
A for non-tolled motorways
N for single roads

(and avoiding R)

Regional:
YY: for all kind of roads, where only colour (and maybe the numeration) will determine the level... orange-green-yellow and, blue if motorway of course

and YY only two letters about region name (for instance AN, AR, AS, CB, CT, CM, CL, RM, LR, NA, EU, EX, MA). Islands roads could keep the name of the island (LZ, FV, GC, TF...)

no mixing province and region numbers in similar roads!!

and only will have the exemption of city rings and city roads close to centre where the first letter or letters would be according to its name.
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Old September 11th, 2012, 05:35 PM   #3126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
But if I understood the last post about the numbering system, the color scheme isn't even consistent from one Autonomous Community to another?
You understood it correctly.
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Old September 11th, 2012, 06:46 PM   #3127
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It is usually the same... but not always.
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Old September 13th, 2012, 11:01 AM   #3128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicerón View Post
Some more news:


The new A-7 in San Pedro de Alcántara, near Marbella, has been opened today: http://www.diariosur.es/v/20120626/m...-20120626.html
Please excuse me for quoting a 3 month old post, but this tunnel is a GAME CHANGER for everyone living on the west side of Marbella downtown. The stretch that used to take up to 1 hour in high traffic is now 1-2 minutes tops. Great job, although it surely did take some time to complete it.

About the 80 km/h limit on A7 between Fuengirola and Estepona - I cannot believe I'm gonna say that, but I actually think it IS a good idea to have it during the high season (Jul-Aug). There's lots and lots of seasonal guests here in summer and their driving skills... let's just say they vary a lot

Having said that, I believe the speed limit should be variable, like on German autobahns. That's what I think would be optimal:

Jun: 100
Jul-Aug: 80
Sep: 100
Oct-May: 120

I have one question regarding the speed limits on Autovias: are they canceled by the next intersection?
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Old September 13th, 2012, 11:05 AM   #3129
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No need to make it by months, but possible by hour-to-hour.

In the Barcelona surroundings, a strech under tests had a variable speed limit (with radars changing according to those limits).

Depending on congestion, accidents on road and even on environment (too many CO2 in the area at that moment) speed could go from 40 to 120 km/h on limit.
Signals were electronic and adviced the limit at every minute.

Maybe a Barcelona forumer could talk further about it.
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Old September 13th, 2012, 03:22 PM   #3130
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Some motorways in Barcelona metro area (B-23, C-31 and C-32) have a variable speed limit. It can be changed depending on congestion and air quality. The system measures traffic speed in a place, and if it is too low, it sets a lower speed limit a few kilometers before the spot so that traffic gets there later and congestion doesn't built up so quickly.

C-31 and C-32 have this variable speed limit since 2009, whilst in B-23 it was implemented this year. Speed cameras work according to what the variable message signs display.

Here's a video of C-31 in which you can see variable speed limits in action. You can see both fixed and variable signage. Variable signage has priority over the fixed one, so in many places it displayed a different speed because of a lane closure that generated a small traffic jam. There are overhead electronic signs every few meters, and there's also one at every entrance.



Personally I think the system works quite well, but I don't like that the speed limit changes in 10 km/h steps. It's too little and it doesn't really make a difference. I mean, nobody cares if the limit is 110 instead of 120 km/h. 20 km/h steps would be better.

Servei Català de Trànsit (Catalan traffic authority) has plans to expand this system to all motorways in Barcelona metro area, but current budget cuts make it unlikely. Ministerio del Interior in the rest of Spain also said they wanted to implement the system in all Spanish motorways, but this sounds like science-fiction in the current economic context.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tompaw View Post
I have one question regarding the speed limits on Autovias: are they canceled by the next intersection?
Speed limits are displayed after every intersection. Even the general one (120). There's no article in our driving code that says speed limits are canceled by intersections, but I guess that if I merge to a road and I see no sign at all I can drive the general speed limit.
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Old September 13th, 2012, 05:09 PM   #3131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
Personally I think the system works quite well, but I don't like that the speed limit changes in 10 km/h steps. It's too little and it doesn't really make a difference. I mean, nobody cares if the limit is 110 instead of 120 km/h. 20 km/h steps would be better.
+1 : 20km/h steps would be better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
Servei Català de Trànsit (Catalan traffic authority) has plans to expand this system to all motorways in Barcelona metro area, but current budget cuts make it unlikely. Ministerio del Interior in the rest of Spain also said they wanted to implement the system in all Spanish motorways, but this sounds like science-fiction in the current economic context.
Interior said ? Maybe fomento or DGT… don't you think…?

I think is more necessary use the same system as France, 130 km/h with normal condition and 110km/h with bad weather.

Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
Speed limits are displayed after every intersection. Even the general one (120). There's no article in our driving code that says speed limits are canceled by intersections, but I guess that if I merge to a road and I see no sign at all I can drive the general speed limit.
The problem is diference which kind of road is it and his speed limit: This one is 120km/h "motorway" and this and this other one is 50km/h because is a "urban area".

I'm prety sure the lasts ones must be a 90km/h road, but the speed nazi who works in the local department of local police of Alicante City doesn't think like me.

Anyway, good video
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Old September 13th, 2012, 05:32 PM   #3132
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Meanwhile in somewhere in Spain…



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Old September 13th, 2012, 06:26 PM   #3133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peines View Post
Interior said ? Maybe fomento or DGT… don't you think…?
DGT (Traffic authority) is an organism depending of that Ministry


Quote:
I think is more necessary use the same system as France, 130 km/h with normal condition and 110km/h with bad weather.


+1
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Old September 13th, 2012, 06:32 PM   #3134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tompaw View Post
I have one question regarding the speed limits on Autovias: are they canceled by the next intersection?


Really not sure, but if the speed limit sign is located close to (not neccesary in the same sign) a banning or warning signal means limit ends when ban or warn ends

This is, the typical signal on a road with a warning of a cross and a speed limit of 80.
After the cross ends, the speed limit ends and come again to 100. Usually there is a signal about it, but not neccessary.
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Old September 13th, 2012, 08:55 PM   #3135
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Let me give you an example of what I'm asking for: here there are 80 speed limits. In around 1km down the road it merges with the N340 coming from downtown Marbella. After that merge there are NO 80s repeated.

But then the road goes through Puerto Banus stretch, which is really a lot of cars, buses, tourists etc. However, there's no 80 till the San Pedro tunnel. So my question is: what's the speed limit on the Puerto Banus part of A7?
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Old September 13th, 2012, 09:34 PM   #3136
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If there is any Autovia (Motorway) sign the limit is 120km/h.
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Old September 13th, 2012, 10:01 PM   #3137
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+1

It is enough the Motorway or Highway signal to have a 120 km/h limit.

Even... if there is a minor limitation, I'm sure in any exit or cross it expires and becomes again to 120.

I explain it... should you enter in a motorway you have a signal and that will mean 120 km/h

Should you are on a motorway with a 80 km/h for a while and you have a cross... let's suposse you drive later on 120 km/h.

If you are catched by a radar, even of any limit, you can say you have entered in the last exit, you have seen a motorway signal and that means 120.

And there is no response to give you back


PS. But do not go 130. One relative got last Christmas a fine because 130 on A-3.

Only 10 km/h more... but 140 EUR fine!!!!!!!
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Old September 13th, 2012, 11:00 PM   #3138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peines View Post
The problem is diference which kind of road is it and his speed limit: This one is 120km/h "motorway" and this and this other one is 50km/h because is a "urban area".

I'm prety sure the lasts ones must be a 90km/h road, but the speed nazi who works in the local department of local police of Alicante City doesn't think like me.

Anyway, good video
We need more 70 km/h urban speed limits in Spain. There are a lot of roads that fall inside dentro de poblado (urban) category, just because they are inside city limits, but they are motorway-like. In other countries they would simply post 70 or 80 km/h speed limits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tompaw View Post
Let me give you an example of what I'm asking for: here there are 80 speed limits. In around 1km down the road it merges with the N340 coming from downtown Marbella. After that merge there are NO 80s repeated.

But then the road goes through Puerto Banus stretch, which is really a lot of cars, buses, tourists etc. However, there's no 80 till the San Pedro tunnel. So my question is: what's the speed limit on the Puerto Banus part of A7?
I guess that for Dirección General de Tráfico (Spanish traffic authority) it is 80 km/h, but they somehow forgot to post the signs there. That until someone gets a speeding ticket, fights it back and wins it in court.

That was what happened here. This used to be an at-grade intersection, and there was an 80 km/h sign before it below a danger sign like this one. The Spanish law says that speed limits (I mean, the ones posted below a danger sign) are cancelled after the danger. There was a speed camera just after that intersection that issued lots of fines to everyone driving above 80 km/h, until a driver fought his ticket back, and won.

There are many more inconsistencies like that one in Spanish roads. For example, here's a sign indicating that you are inside Mataró city limits, so speed limit should be 50 km/h. But then you get 70 km/h signs because of the roundabout a few meters forward, like if the speed limit was 100 and dropped to 70. I mean, is it 50 or 100 km/h? Another one here. You enter city limits, and shortly after, you get 80 km/h signs. That's nonsense. Is it too hard to place both signs at the same spot? I guess it is. Now there's a 50 km/h speed limit that lasts 200 meters, and you can legally be ticketed for driving past it at 70 km/h.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post

PS. But do not go 130. One relative got last Christmas a fine because 130 on A-3.

Only 10 km/h more... but 140 EUR fine!!!!!!!
The fine for driving up to 150 km/h in a motorway is 100€, not 140. Plus, you can pay 50% if you do it in 15 days time.
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Old September 14th, 2012, 01:02 AM   #3139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
The Spanish law says that speed limits (I mean, the ones posted below a danger sign) are cancelled after the danger. There was a speed camera just after that intersection that issued lots of fines to everyone driving above 80 km/h, until a driver fought his ticket back, and won.

Not only bellow but ALSO CLOSE TO.

This is... if you have a danger sign and just before or after a speed limit sign... it is cancelled after danger.

No need to be exactly on same pylon.


Quote:
The fine for driving up to 150 km/h in a motorway is 100€, not 140. Plus, you can pay 50% if you do it in 15 days time.


In fact... it was for a relatives and do not remember exactly.

I remember it was on Christmas days and fine arrived five weekdays later only. In the same paper you had the information of fine, a corner to say who was the driver (if you wasn't), the radar image and the radar calibracion certificate to avoid you asking for it.

And where to pay if you wanted to reduce 50% in 15 days...


Just five days being Christmas (when post is usually slower)
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Old September 14th, 2012, 01:32 AM   #3140
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I think that since few years ago the speed-cam fines are processed automaticly... that means that the speed-cam takes the photo and sends it to the processing center in ¿León? and there a computer recognizes the plate number (without human intervention if possible), checks the cars database and sends a fine notification to the owner (you can choose to receive it by certified mail wich is the default option, electronic mail or I think that even SMS) asking for identify the driver or pay it if the driver was the owner of the car.
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