daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old September 21st, 2012, 04:58 PM   #3201
Peines
Peter
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Madrid
Posts: 873
Likes (Received): 99

Even google maps cartography still sucks…!
Peines no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old September 21st, 2012, 05:05 PM   #3202
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,758

"thanks" to google I knew where the exits of A-22 would be.

It was still on works, and just started, but on google maps it appeared as finished for a while, enough to check the exact points of every exit.
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2012, 05:06 PM   #3203
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,241
Likes (Received): 779

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peines View Post
Even google maps cartography still sucks…!
Long live paper maps!

By the way, who, in our Spanish forumers' opinion, publishes the best road atlas of Spain?
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2012, 05:11 PM   #3204
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,758

bfff... maybe only "official ones and one of my region, I found several mistakes (it was very detailed and because that I found a few mistakes)

maps online are similar than on paper. We can make a list of them and order by punctuation.
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2012, 05:15 PM   #3205
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,592
Likes (Received): 19383

Doesn't Fomento publishes an official highway map each year? Unfortunately it's not free.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2012, 05:17 PM   #3206
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,758

I think every year and... I think it can be buyed only on-line
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2012, 05:21 PM   #3207
gincan
Gincan
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 887
Likes (Received): 183

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Most HOV lanes in Europe only allow buses and sometimes taxis. American-style HOV lanes do not exist elsewhere to my knowledge.

They opened a reversible HOV carpool lane in the Netherlands in the early 1990s but it flopped and opened to all traffic later.

In my opinion, HOV lanes are a waste of money. Their hourly volumes are very low and could be justified in some American metropolises without much public transport (carpooling being a substitute) but this doesn't make much sense in Europe.

I'm very interested in seeing the traffic volume on that HOV lane.
I believe the idea behind this one is to lure som drivers to take the bus insted, the existing comuter train is as slow as a donkey and completely useless, so with this HOV road maybe the buses can outperform the trains, atlest in theory.
gincan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2012, 05:30 PM   #3208
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,758

This is the Aragonese road map published on an official webpage of Aragon Government

http://carreterasdearagon.es/pix/map...ras_aragon.pdf

It should be two years old because A-22 doesn't appear finished on east (and a small strech of A-21 near Navarra)
And... obviously, the N-260 Sabiñanigo-Fiscal opened last july (on the Aragonese subforum we have a lot of photos of that road just after opening, and some of them here)

I found several mistakes:

Sabiñanigo-Jaca is A-23, not A-21
No motorway or similar on the west of Ejea de los Caballeros (btw, western ring is finished)
Motorway AA-1 is really ARA-A-1


But in the rest of cases I do not find any mistake, and there is too many information on the map


About the map:

- Green and red lines are tolled motorways
- Green and dark lines are free motorways (even if a 3x3 motorway with no access to little vehicles or similar. They only say if tolled or not tolled)
- Red lines are national roads. All of them N-XXX (and N-II). Managed by Fomento

The rest of roads in the map AND the ARA-A-1 are managed by Aragon Government and sometimes by local administration (sometimes it is the case of an off-road with asphalt and... appears in that map with its name), but mainly Aragon Government

After national roads:

First regional network is in orange: A-XXX and I think they are about 34 different roads (they can have only 5 km or more than 100 km)
Second regional network is in green A-1XXX and second digit indicates area... and you can see it
Third regional network is in yellow A-2XXX and also second digit indicates area.

"Usually", a national road will have better characteristics than a first level regional road (orange) and so on... but we can find a lot of examples where it happens upside down
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2012, 05:31 PM   #3209
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,758

And... sometimes ago, several forumers posted the official maps of every region (and we could search for more). Should any of you want a map of a region, just ask for it and we could transfer question to the Spanish forum.
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2012, 05:57 PM   #3210
gincan
Gincan
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 887
Likes (Received): 183

I don't understand why they keep on insisting on wasting public money on these "Official maps" now that there are far superior maps available for free.

I'm sorry to say this alserrod but that map look horrible, as if it had been commissioned by kindergarden pupils, unreadable, cluttered and just awful.

I would prefer to use even the over-cluttered Open Street Map over this thing
gincan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2012, 06:04 PM   #3211
verreme
Registered User
 
verreme's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 1,392
Likes (Received): 645

Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post
I believe the idea behind this one is to lure som drivers to take the bus insted, the existing comuter train is as slow as a donkey and completely useless, so with this HOV road maybe the buses can outperform the trains, atlest in theory.
A new direct bus line will indeed start the same day HOV lanes open. But I don't think it was the main purpose of this road.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post
I don't understand why they keep on insisting on wasting public money on these "Official maps" now that there are far superior maps available for free.

I'm sorry to say this alserrod but that map look horrible, as if it had been commissioned by kindergarden pupils, unreadable, cluttered and just awful.

I would prefer to use even the over-cluttered Open Street Map over this thing
Free maps are not "far superior". They are far worse. Google Maps is highly inaccurate when it comes to name roads, for example, and bot GMaps and OSM show unbuilt roads, or forget about already-opened ones.
verreme no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2012, 06:08 PM   #3212
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,758

One friend told me that his entreprise got a contract by the administration to check a lot of roads. Two teams of two people (one driver and one civil engineer). They left home on Monday and had a lot of roads to travel and check the asphalt status. He told me that maximum speed the drove was 50 because there was too many things to check while driving and too many things to write at the same time. That was the reason of being all the week out of home, even only 200 km away...


I think this official map can be made with only part of that data.

Apart of it, there are official maps for terrain, landscape, countries, etc... Just deleting specific data (such if you use layers), you can take an official road map.

In other words, I'm sure no one has worked for a specific road map but just using several other works.
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2012, 06:14 PM   #3213
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,758

By the way... today maybe in several computered systems you can find something but for a lot of years the best maps VERY DETAILED where those made by the Army.
Level lines (altitude), coordenates, etc... and if you had an off road or just a trekking lane, apart of roads (in case of road they said the wide of it).

They were very detailed and everyone who wanted to make trekking or similar bought them before anything else. They were very, very detailed and..... they were very cheap (the same price of a normal paper map but let's remember they had a looooot of information that couldn't be requested in other maps).

Unfortunately I do not know if they keep publishing them. Now there are other systems... and unfortunately, the level of detailed map and the period for updating them depended on Army interests only, not on library buyers interests
(in my case I requested always those in the Pyrenees for trekking and they could be those ones with more details and updated)

But... nothing online, only on paper. Maybe you can find a specific scanned photo or similar
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2012, 06:16 PM   #3214
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,758

I found an example!!!!!!!

This piece of map is scanned from a military map.
There are roads (a small one), off-road lanes, trekking lanes, and you can see the exactly altitude




and the red route is for climbing this mountain (Peña Montañesa, near Ainsa, at Aragon)


__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2012, 10:35 PM   #3215
x-type
con los terroristas
 
x-type's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bjelovar [HR]
Posts: 13,466
Likes (Received): 3437

can somebody write something about upgrading C25 on 2+2 autovia? i didn't know they are doing it untill i passed over it near Sant Hilari Sacalm where i saw construction site. tunnel Les Comes already has second tube (not operational yet). what is the progress? will it run only from Girona to Vic, or somewhere else? where will it join AP7 near Girona?
__________________
Svaki dan sanjam autobahn...
x-type está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2012, 10:41 PM   #3216
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,758

Now, on Aragon TV (regional TV at Aragon), a document-TV about the 30 km of N-232


Amaaaaazing!

you can see it NOW live on www.aragontelevision.es and pushing PLAY
or since tomorrow at alacarta.aragontelevision.es and section "unidad movil"
Even if no acknoledgement of Spanish, I think images are enough...


About the program, this is the description that the TV makes about it.
I recommend you to use a translator to understand it. It worths too much
(and have a look about last paragraph)


Quote:
En el tramo entre las localidades de Figueruelas y Mallén, según la Dirección General de Tráfico, se producen una cuarta parte de los accidentes mortales que tienen lugar en las carreteras de Aragón. Es una de las reivindicaciones más antiguas de los vecinos que diariamente conviven con este tramo de la N-232.

“En el año 2008 pusieron una línea continua y limitaron la velocidad a 80 km/h, pero sigue habiendo accidentes cada semana”, cuenta Ana, vecina de Figueruelas, mientras se prepara, junto con otros compañeros, para la marcha lenta. Se trata de una protesta que llevan realizando 4 meses y que consiste en transitar con sus coches por este tramo tan peligroso.

¿Cómo afecta convivir a diario con un tramo de carretera donde en los últimos diez años han perdido la vida 70 personas?

José Miguel es taxista en Pedrola. “Yo generalmente la evito yendo por una carretera auxiliar”, explica. Hoy le toca coger a unos vecinos para llevarlos a Mallén. “Van a una cena y van a beber, así que prefieren no conducir”. “Nuestros hijos juegan en una liga de esta zona; hemos visto cosas terribles, así que siempre intentamos evitar esta carretera aunque nos cueste más”, explican los clientes de José Miguel.

“Es la carretera que más cantidad de vehículos pesados soporta en toda España”, dice Mariano, responsable de Centro Zaragoza, una empresa dependiente de los seguros que se encarga de investigar sobre los siniestros viales. “Aquí la mayoría de los muertos se producen por choques frontales. En éste, por ejemplo murieron sus dos ocupantes; mira cómo está el coche… Pues iban a 50 km/h”, cuenta Mariano mientras muestra al reportero un vehículo cuya marca no se puede identificar por el impacto del choque.

La solución, según los afectados, pasa por hacer una carretera con dos carriles en cada dirección o liberalizar la autopista que va en paralelo con la N-232. Eder perdió a su hijo Alberto el día del Pilar de hace 4 años. Salió después de comer de su casa de Pedrola y ya no volvió. "Me llamó por teléfono a las 12 de la noche y me dijo que volvía para casa. Hora y media más tarde fue la Guardia Civil la que me llamó para darme la mala noticia".

"Mi pena es que si la carretera hubiera estado desdoblada aunque mi hijo se hubiera salido igual de la vía no hubiera tenido a nadie en frente a quien arrollar. Y el matrimonio de Mallén se hubiera salvado". A raíz de la muerte de Alberto fue cuando se decidió poner la raya continua en los 27 kilómetros y la prohibición de circular a mas de 80 km/hora.

¿Por qué se producen tantos accidentes en este tramo de carretera? Un reportero de Unidad móvil “caza” a varios vehículos a más de cien km/h, cuando la velocidad máxima es 80 km/h. “La gente es impaciente por naturaleza, por eso adelantan en línea continua; por eso corren más de lo permitido”, explica el sargento Miguel. Otro de los motivos de la acumulación de accidentes es el elevado tránsito de camiones. De los 16.000 vehículos que circulan por este tramo a diario, el 60% son camiones. “A este tramo se le conoce como la senda de los elefantes”, dice Gregorio, un camionero que duerme habitualmente en su camión y come muchas veces de bocadillo para ahorrar gastos. Esa es la razón principal por la que muchos no optan por pagar el peaje de la AP-68 como ruta alternativa al tramo de la N-232, desde Mallén a Figueruelas.

¿Cómo afectaría el desdoblamiento a los negocios que viven pegados a este tramo de carretera nacional? Los reporteros visitan el taller de Ángel, un argentino que lleva 7 años regentando un taller y a Jesús, encargado del restaurante “La Imperial”. “Si se hace el desdoblamiento…¿Cómo nos va a afectar? Yo no se si…? Cuenta Ramona, dueña de otro restaurante en Mallén. Pero, entonces, ¿Estaría en contra del desdoblamiento? Pregunta el reportero.

Mallén es el último pueblo de esos 27 kilómetros, antes de llegar a la autovía de Navarra. Los vecinos cuentan a la reportera como conviven con la carretera. " Aquí cuando menos te los esperas te enteras que un vecino se ha dado un golpe", comentan varios vecinos. "Yo he bajado 28 años a trabajar a Figueruelas y no tenía más remedio que ir por la N-232. Por autopista tienes que ir hasta Alagón y volver. Das mas vuelta, tardas más y más gasto claro". Ahora la mayoría van por autopista, pero hay un tramo de 5 kilómetros de carretera que son ineludibles si quieres entrar a Mallén. Precisamente en ese tramo se produjo el último accidente sin víctimas. Simona cuenta a la reportera como el pasado uno de agosto volvía a Mallén en el coche con su hija y su nieto de 40 días. El coche que llevaban delante adelantó mientras veían venir un camión de frente. "El impacto fue brutal y yo creí que nos matábamos, pero reaccioné bien y salí de la carretera a la derecha". "Salí del coche y fui a buscar al imprudente. Le dije ¿Estás vivo? Me respondió que sí. Luego le conteste: ¡Cómo le pase algo a mi hija o a mi nieto, te mato!
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2012, 11:26 PM   #3217
verreme
Registered User
 
verreme's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 1,392
Likes (Received): 645

Quote:
Originally Posted by x-type View Post
can somebody write something about upgrading C25 on 2+2 autovia? i didn't know they are doing it untill i passed over it near Sant Hilari Sacalm where i saw construction site. tunnel Les Comes already has second tube (not operational yet). what is the progress? will it run only from Girona to Vic, or somewhere else? where will it join AP7 near Girona?
All 150 km of C-25, from Cervera (A-2) to Riudellots de la Selva (AP-7), are being upgraded to autovía standards. They are building another carriageway parallel to the existing one. It will open altogether in January 2013, though in some stretches asphalt is already poured and signs put in place. Like other motorways built by Catalan regional government, it will be financed by shadow tolls.
verreme no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 22nd, 2012, 07:31 PM   #3218
miliar
Registered User
 
miliar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Madrid
Posts: 130
Likes (Received): 36

Quote:
Originally Posted by x-type View Post
11. we took exit Hostalric. what font is this? arial?! i haven't noticed it in Spain sooner.


12.
Typeface Helvetica has been used in this case instead of Highway Gothic, which would be the suitable font in this case. Arial font is quite similar to Helvetica, in fact it’s just a copy of this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
They SHOULDN'T write França/Francia but Perpignan/Montpellier.
This is a simple way to show the name of foreign towns on guide signs.



Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
They are things that... better do not ask because no answer.
“What we cannot speak about we must pass over in silence”. (Ludwig Wittgenstein, Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus, 1921)
miliar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 22nd, 2012, 07:59 PM   #3219
Peines
Peter
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Madrid
Posts: 873
Likes (Received): 99

Quote:
Originally Posted by miliar View Post
“What we cannot speak about we must pass over in silence”. (Ludwig Wittgenstein, Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus, 1921)
+1
Peines no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2012, 12:08 AM   #3220
gincan
Gincan
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 887
Likes (Received): 183

Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
A new direct bus line will indeed start the same day HOV lanes open. But I don't think it was the main purpose of this road.
Are you sure?

Quote:
El Govern implantará nuevos servicios de bus exprés, los denominados 'Exprés.cat', a partir de octubre en 40 líneas interurbanas de Catalunya que concentran el 40% de la demanda, con ocupaciones medias de 30 viajeros por expedición y 21,3 millones de pasajeros anuales.

Según ha explicado el conseller de Territorio y Sostenibilidad, Lluís Recoder, en la presentación de este servicio en el carril bus-VAO de la C-58, estas líneas exprés enlazarán las principales ciudades mejorando las frecuencias de paso cerca de diez minutos y reduciendo los tiempos de viaje hasta la mitad en algunos casos, gracias al uso de las prioridades semafóricas y de tener pocas paradas en el recorrido.
Source:

http://www.lavanguardia.com/local/ba...e-octubre.html
gincan no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
autopista, carreteras, españa, highways, motorways, road, spain, spain in the world, via rapida

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium