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Old September 28th, 2012, 08:34 PM   #3241
OriK
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I don't think that this is the cause of a bad project... this "bridge" has supported a lot of floods and earthquakes in the last few years and now only one of its sections has collapsed.

Maybe it was a maintenance problem or maybe the specific conditions of today with the specific state of maintenance was unpredictable.

I've seen bridges closed just in case they collapse because the conditions aren't the specified for its use (this should have been the case!) and others demolished and rebuilt because they detected during maintenance that they wouldn't be safe for much longer (like in the A-42 in Toledo) so I really don't think that the governments are generally negligent on this. Maybe they were too optimistic about its period of life.

Of course there is a problem and we have to investigate if it was avoidable but initially I think that it's nobody's fault... as it was stated before this happens every year in roads that have been there for a lot of years and the weather just overpassed the endurance parameters of the project as this kind of bad weather is predictable but the strength of it in a specific point isn't.
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Old September 29th, 2012, 12:12 AM   #3242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I don't know if your answer was intended to me, but I was asking if there are deaths and/or injured.
No deaths or injuries due to the collapsing viaduct.
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Old September 29th, 2012, 10:45 AM   #3243
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Another bridge in the AP7 between Cartagena and Vera have collapsed (km 894).

So now there is no direct route (Motorway) between Andalucia and Murcia.
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Old September 29th, 2012, 01:37 PM   #3244
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As you have said, the collapse of the bridge on A-7 has been caused by the failure of a pile during a peak flood of the spanned stream. In fact, water has scoured away not only the soil under the foundation of a pile but also an abutment and part of the enbankment. Unfortunately, these accidents are not unsual in Spain, ... and everywhere, especially where rainfall is uneven as Mediterranean area. For instance, yesterday another brigde, which was built one hundred years ago, crumbled in Alora, close to Málaga, due to another flood.


Source: Diario del Alto Aragón

If we want to determine responsabilities, it is neccesary to know an important parameter: the return period of the flood which caused the collapse. Spanish bridges are designed for the 500-year flood nowadays. However, if I’m not wrong, when this bridge was designed, a return period of 100 years used to be taken into account, as these guidelines changed afterwards. If the water level is higher than this value, then we have to assume that it has been just an accident caused by an extreme and ‘unpredictable' flood. Of course, calculation methods for the return period of a flood aren’t very reliable, as they are based on the statistical analysis of historical records of rainfall which don’t cover a long period of time.

If the collapse has been caused by a lower volume of water, design, inspection or conservation have failed. In this case, it would be interesting to study the state of the watercourse before the flood, as failure may be caused by external factors, as obstructions or dirtiness upstream.

Anyway, this bridge is supposed to have been checked last year after the earthquake which took place in this area. So, any problem on foundation could have been detected then.

On the other hand, we have good news about the remaining section of A-8 between Unquera and Llanes: A five-kilometre long stretch between San Roque del Acebal and Llanes was opened yesterday.

A-8 San Roque del Acebal - Llanes
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Old September 29th, 2012, 03:15 PM   #3245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovalo View Post
A-7

It is very risky to talk about causes. But this looks like one of the failed stirrups. Maybe not bear the flood, and failed. What you say miliar is very true, we should check if the rains have exceeded the maximum project flood.
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Old September 29th, 2012, 03:18 PM   #3246
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I've read there was 120 - 200 mm of rain within a 24-hour period. If all that runoff collects in such a creek, it could create a huge flash flood.
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Old September 29th, 2012, 03:30 PM   #3247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arriaca View Post
It is very risky to talk about causes. But this looks like one of the failed stirrups. Maybe not bear the flood, and failed. What you say miliar is very true, we should check if the rains have exceeded the maximum project flood.
Sorry for the following explanation. Please translate bridge 'estribo' as abutment. We use to call 'stirrups' to closed transverse rebars of reinforced concrete, shaped as rectangles.

You have frightened me.
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Old September 30th, 2012, 12:11 PM   #3248
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If you want to know which road works will be included in Spanish Government Budget for next year, please follow these links:

DGC

SEITTSA

And these are the objectives:

New roads (program 453B)

Road conservation (program 453C)
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Old October 2nd, 2012, 05:54 PM   #3249
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Second video from last Monday's roadtrip, C-16 from Manresa to Berga:



Now you can drive 120 km/h all the way (it used to be 100 except for two short stretches at both ends), even through the tunnels. I like this road, it's fun to drive and has some cool views.
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Old October 2nd, 2012, 11:22 PM   #3250
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Autostrada A6



Road N110







Autostrada A50 Avila - Salamanca











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Old October 2nd, 2012, 11:24 PM   #3251
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Autostrada A62 Salamanca - Portugalia








Last edited by Rusonaldo; October 2nd, 2012 at 11:31 PM.
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Old October 2nd, 2012, 11:30 PM   #3252
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del
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 11:10 AM   #3253
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Cool pictures . In the first one you can see HOV lanes between both carriageways of A-6.
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Old October 4th, 2012, 09:11 PM   #3254
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Can anyone tell my why the A/AP-motorways in País Vasco/Euskadi and Navarra are not part of the RCE - Red de Carreteras del Estado?

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Old October 4th, 2012, 09:52 PM   #3255
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ALL roads, doesn't matter the category, of Navarra and Basque country EXCEPTING AP-68 are managed by regional governments.
Balearic and Canary island roads are managed not by the regional government but for each island government.



As a curious thing... N-232 (A-68) has the km.0 at Vinaroz and arriving at Navarra change the number of kilometre points but remains the road number, at getting La Rioja keeps such starting at Vinaroz again.
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Old October 4th, 2012, 10:10 PM   #3256
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Shouldn't these routes then have a community number instead of a national number? Just like the other communities.
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Old October 4th, 2012, 10:45 PM   #3257
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what are chances of an improved N420 or an extended A-40 between Cuenca and Teruel, closing the gap there?
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Old October 4th, 2012, 11:30 PM   #3258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Shouldn't these routes then have a community number instead of a national number? Just like the other communities.
The Basque Country and Navarra have an special status in Spain, so they manage Spanish roads and construct high speed rails instead of central government.

In fact they are 4 "fueros" (3 in the Basque Country and 1 in Navarra) that have its own tax system and with the possibility to merge according to Spanish Constitution.
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Old October 5th, 2012, 08:02 AM   #3259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
Second video from last Monday's roadtrip, C-16 from Manresa to Berga:



Now you can drive 120 km/h all the way (it used to be 100 except for two short stretches at both ends), even through the tunnels. I like this road, it's fun to drive and has some cool views.
nice video thank's for sharing!
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Old October 5th, 2012, 10:48 PM   #3260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
what are chances of an improved N420 or an extended A-40 between Cuenca and Teruel, closing the gap there?
I'm not sure if it's a priority for the spanish government.
Because I think there is a few vehicles per day there which don't justify a better road.
But maybe spanish forumers can tell us more.And I never drove on this section.
Other thing: a lot of roadworks between Llanes and Unquera on the N 634.
They 're working hard. When it will be ready for this new A8 section ?
But nothing new between Torrelavega and Solares. all is provided for a 2 * 2 but any works.
Why ? Lack of money ?
I think there is urgency, it's a dangerous road.
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