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Old January 15th, 2013, 10:16 PM   #3441
Coccodrillo
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What's the viaduct in the background here? Do you have a map of the carriageways and roads on that pass? As I understand from OpenStreetMaps, the two carriageways will follow different paths (one being the existing N-330).
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Old January 15th, 2013, 11:56 PM   #3442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The next phase of A-23 north of Nueno to Monrepos Pass will open in December 2013. A 5 kilometer segment of A-23 will open in a week or two with 1x2 lanes, after which the existing N-330 will be converted to the other carriageway of A-23.

http://www.elperiodicodearagon.com/n...no_821984.html

Will there be a road for slow traffic as well? From the sound of it, it looks like the old road will be converted to autovía, which means there is no road left for bicyclists, tractors, etc.
Bikes are usually allowed in autovías shoulders (never in autopistas)... for tractors there are usually unpaved ways next to autovías...
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Old January 16th, 2013, 12:21 AM   #3443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
What about this old, poorly maintained road http://goo.gl/maps/awpWd
This is not a "road" actually. It is the old N330 and now it is a rural service utility
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Old January 16th, 2013, 02:27 AM   #3444
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Wow... one news in my region and not enought time to answer so many messages.

Let me explain:

In THIS strech. Current N-330 is being refurbished and will be the two lanes direction Jaca

A new strech has been built for direction Huesca. This will go in the right side of the river so it includes several bridges and a tunnel there (motorway will go with lanes in the opposite sides of the river).

80 km/h was planned since the design.

And no options for other vehicles in this strech.


Let me answer some of your questions
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Old January 16th, 2013, 02:29 AM   #3445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
What about this old, poorly maintained road http://goo.gl/maps/awpWd
As far as I know, I think it has no maintenance. It is former N-330 and sometimes, if current N-330 has been cut because any reason, there was a fast maintenance for a while and traffic driving there while works.
But I remember that only twice or three times in a loooooot of years
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Old January 16th, 2013, 02:36 AM   #3446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
What's the viaduct in the background here? Do you have a map of the carriageways and roads on that pass? As I understand from OpenStreetMaps, the two carriageways will follow different paths (one being the existing N-330).


It has no traffic. It is also former N-330 in the Monrepos pass.

The tunnel with current traffic will be used direction Huesca. Tunnel under construction in this view will be direction Jaca.
HINT!!!!!. They will change directions... any strech will go in the left for the pass. Just after the tunnels, direction Huesca, lanes will cross over the other and will keep right again.

The viaduct in the photo is the one that takes to former Manzanera tunnel which nowadays has no service.

This is the picture in the opposite side of the tunnel

https://maps.google.es/?ll=42.328061...2,26.5,,0,3.29

Road is used only for arriving several very small villages and no need to cross that tunnel. In this photo the other tunnels cannot be seen but they are just several meters down
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Old January 16th, 2013, 02:40 AM   #3447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arriaca View Post
This is not a "road" actually. It is the old N330 and now it is a rural service utility
And... only partially.

This picture shows the same road!!!
https://maps.google.es/?ll=42.300144...2,3.84,,0,1.19

and of course is out of service.

By the way, the 5 km strech will not arrive until this point but just somewhere before (looking from the south). In this point works have not started yet.

This strech is called "Congosto de Isuela" and only 2 km. Just for crossing this narrow space. As far as I know, current N-330 will be lanes to Huesca and a new road to Jaca with a tunnel near there will have two more lanes.

After those 2 km it will start the strech according to the 1,5 km tunnels.


The news talks only from Nueno (end of current motorway) and for 5 km to North, opening in December.
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Old January 16th, 2013, 06:59 PM   #3448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
What about this old, poorly maintained road http://goo.gl/maps/awpWd
Quote:
Originally Posted by arriaca View Post
This is not a "road" actually. It is the old N330 and now it is a rural service utility
It wasn't N-330 either. That old road was always signed as C-136, and they built the N-330 near there right during the late 80s renumberation. But this viaduct...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
What's the viaduct in the background here? Do you have a map of the carriageways and roads on that pass? As I understand from OpenStreetMaps, the two carriageways will follow different paths (one being the existing N-330).
... was actually part of N-330 for a few years until the tunnels opened, and this explains why at the summit of Monrepós pass there are 4 km signed in 100 meters distance. In both cases current E07 is being upgraded to a "motorway", and I write motorway between brackets because I assume bicycles and other slow vehicles will be allowed since there will be no alternative.
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Old January 16th, 2013, 07:02 PM   #3449
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Couldn't they convert the old road into a bike/scooter/agricultural vehicle path

In any case, one of the advantages of Spanish road network is that it took them much longer to start replacing earlier mountainous roads by better ones, compared to the French or Italian. Therefore, they usually have higher standards and often controlled access.

========================

What about that plan to reduce maximum speed on "carreteras" from 100km/h to 90km/h. Will it go ahead? I read on El Pais with my limites Spanish reading abilities that some specialists were looking to have it reduced to 80 or at least forbid any overtaking when the speed limit is over 80 on 1+1 roads...
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Old January 16th, 2013, 07:15 PM   #3450
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I think that there aren't much problems for biking there or riding a motorbike or even riding agricultural vehicles.... if Google's car was able to get in... anybody can...
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Old January 17th, 2013, 03:24 PM   #3451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Couldn't they convert the old road into a bike/scooter/agricultural vehicle path

In any case, one of the advantages of Spanish road network is that it took them much longer to start replacing earlier mountainous roads by better ones, compared to the French or Italian. Therefore, they usually have higher standards and often controlled access.

========================

What about that plan to reduce maximum speed on "carreteras" from 100km/h to 90km/h. Will it go ahead? I read on El Pais with my limites Spanish reading abilities that some specialists were looking to have it reduced to 80 or at least forbid any overtaking when the speed limit is over 80 on 1+1 roads...
Speed limit in single-carriageway roads will be lowered this Spring. That's all we know; everything else is just speculation.

About old roads being replaced by newer ones or freeways, they should be either removed to preserve nature or kept as roads for non-motor vehicles. Reality is that once a new road opens, they are simply forgot. No maintenance is performed on them, so pavement cracks and signs fade. It's a shame because we could have a huge cycle path network by using (some of) the width of these old roads.
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Old January 17th, 2013, 03:26 PM   #3452
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Many carreteras nacionales are well-suited for 100 km/h, with a straight alignment, wide carriageway and sufficient visibility. Reducing them to 90 or even 80 km/h is plain stupid. However I can understand lowering the speed limit on less well-built roads.
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Old January 17th, 2013, 03:44 PM   #3453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Many carreteras nacionales are well-suited for 100 km/h, with a straight alignment, wide carriageway and sufficient visibility. Reducing them to 90 or even 80 km/h is plain stupid. However I can understand lowering the speed limit on less well-built roads.
There is only one reason: more people will use tolled motorways, some of them in bankrupt!
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Old January 17th, 2013, 03:47 PM   #3454
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The tolls on Spanish toll roads are far too high anyway. Spanish toll roads are one of the cheapest to construct in Europe, yet have some of the highest toll rates. The current high unemployment really doesn't help either.

Maybe Fomento can buy the toll roads at a bargain. It happened a while ago in San Diego, California. The local government purchased the bankrupt toll road at a bargain and reduced the toll rates. After that, traffic volumes went up and revenue as well.
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Old January 17th, 2013, 03:49 PM   #3455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Couldn't they convert the old road into a bike/scooter/agricultural vehicle path

In any case, one of the advantages of Spanish road network is that it took them much longer to start replacing earlier mountainous roads by better ones, compared to the French or Italian. Therefore, they usually have higher standards and often controlled access.

========================
Let's talk stretch by stretch:


Nueno-Congosto de Isuela: Former road could be updated for pedestrians and bikes with not many problems.

Congosto de Isuela (the small stretch near the narrowest point and besides the dam): It will be very difficult to update old road. A great deal of it has dissapeared because current N-330 and other parts like the little tunnel will require an important maintenance.

Alto Aragon tunnels: Absolutely impossible. Road keeps open to arrive to Arguis (1 km away from motorway) and to climb to several very small villages. But to arrive those villages there is no need to cross the tunnel (almost 1,5 km). So the tunnel is closed and without maintenance. The old road keeps opened until the southern side of the old tunnel but impossible to use as an alternative.
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Old January 17th, 2013, 03:50 PM   #3456
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And talking about the N-330:
Today, 10 years ago, Somport tunnel was opened in the E-07. It is a 8,1 km tunnel under the Pyrenees. The longest road tunnel in Spain and... is it the longest no-tolled tunnel?
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Old January 17th, 2013, 03:57 PM   #3457
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SI-14, Asturias

The second and third phase of a new express road in Asturias opened to traffic today. It's a two-lane expressway with grade-separation and a few tunnels. It runs east of AS-I and connect El Entrego with A-64.



http://www.elcomercio.es/v/20130117/...-20130117.html
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Old January 17th, 2013, 07:23 PM   #3458
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It's Autovia, Autopista or just highway (100km/h) or road (90km/h)…?
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Old January 17th, 2013, 07:24 PM   #3459
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It would've gotten vía rápida status if that road class still existed. 1x2 lanes and interchanges. Probably 100 km/h.
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Old January 17th, 2013, 07:30 PM   #3460
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Surprise!!!... in the thread about roads for this region there is no post since several months ago. So no local info.
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