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Old May 24th, 2013, 12:02 PM   #3661
adevahi
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Beautiful pictures can be taken from the place of photo number 5.
I love to drive in this part of A-49, is different to the rest of highways
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Old May 24th, 2013, 12:08 PM   #3662
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRX_69 View Post
The picture n.º 4 was the first who took in Spain in this trip
It is because the signal points to a prison in the nearby of the motorway. Just that.

Nice welcome
I didn't notice that in previous pictures
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Old May 24th, 2013, 06:35 PM   #3663
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Any one in Zaragoza, what is the current status on the A-68 extension into the city, the tunnel part?
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Old May 24th, 2013, 06:36 PM   #3664
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Which tunnel?
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Old May 24th, 2013, 06:40 PM   #3665
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Which tunnel?
The one that runs alongside the railway tunnel.
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Old May 24th, 2013, 06:46 PM   #3666
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I know. I was joking, I knew here that this tunnel existed, but I have never seen it... and I go to work in that direction.
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Old May 24th, 2013, 07:24 PM   #3667
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post
Any one in Zaragoza, what is the current status on the A-68 extension into the city, the tunnel part?

Works are absolutely stopped and there is no deadline for them.

In the middle of 2000ish, there was an agreement between different administrations. The railway would be underground and several terrains would be free. They could change their use (buildings instead of railway use), selling them and earning a lot of money.

They sold several terrains but not all of them. Consequently, several works were finished, some of them not started, and some of them partially done.

It is a real pity because this tunnel is almost finished.
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Old June 11th, 2013, 12:20 PM   #3668
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AP-46

http://www.laopiniondemalaga.es/mala...is/594619.html

Look at this news article. A typical presentation of facts with journalists don't knowing what they mean. They say traffic volumes on AP-46 declined hugely, by 53% between August 2012 and January 2013.

This comparison is very flawed because it doesn't make any sense to compare the typical peak month of August with the typical low month of January and conclude traffic has declined. January volumes are always lower in all European countries, typically by 15 - 20% compared to the annual average, more when compared to the peak month of the year.

Significantly lower volumes in January are logical on an Autopista like this. 53% is a bit much, but that happens when the base numbers are not high (12.200 vs 5.800 vpd). I'm sure the concession company would be aware of such basic traffic patterns.

Poor researching on the behalf of this journalist. They should have least added that August volumes are always higher and January volumes are always lower on such motorways. It makes little sense to compare it and draw a conclusion based on two statistical outliers.
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Old June 11th, 2013, 06:10 PM   #3669
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AFAIK, AP-46 is no AP-41. There's actual traffic there.
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Old June 13th, 2013, 12:28 AM   #3670
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A-73 Burgos - Aguilar de Campoo

Tomorrow, it will take place the Official Opening by politicans of the first 10 km of A-73 between Burgos and Quintanortuño (hopefully it will open to traffic on Friday).

Construction was started in 2008. The ending has been delayed for almost 3 years due to several reasons (mainly economic recession adjustments).

Quote:
Fomento acaba el primer tramo de la A-73 y relanza la circunvalación



http://www.diariodeburgos.es/noticia...circunvalacion
This road is very important to a large part of the meseta to access to Santander quickly (for example, all traffic from Madrid or Burgos will use this way).

As it can be checked in the photograph, the route is very straight and it has very simple structures. This road will save more than 5 minutes on every trip.
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Old June 13th, 2013, 08:58 PM   #3671
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I don't see the whole of A-73 being built in the future. Existing A-6/A-62/A-67 is an already good connection between Madrid and Santander, and Santander-Burgos traffic does not justify that motorway. Plus, the current road is very good.
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Old June 14th, 2013, 01:01 AM   #3672
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Quote:
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I don't see the whole of A-73 being built in the future.
Me neither, and I know pretty well this route, and all the connections with Santander area. However, I think there is a historical reason: Burgos has no train with Santander, and no good direct road. A-73 is a good way to connect 2 important northern cities

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Existing A-6/A-62/A-67 is an already good connection between Madrid and Santander,
I bet that you have never traveled between Madrid and Santander by car, have you?

Going to Santander from Madrid using A-6 is a huge error: because you have to pay AP-6. The best way, all with highway, is throughout Burgos: A-1 + A-231 + A-67. You do less km than by Valladolid. But now, the best way is A-1 + A-73 + 64km of N-627 + A-67, because it takes a litlle less time now than by A-231, and you do more than 30km less

Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
and Santander-Burgos traffic does not justify that motorway.
True. But, is not only Burgos, you have to add also Madrid and all as I have explained, and also places like Soria, west parts of La Rioja, and of course Castilla La Mancha, part of Andalucía, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
Plus, the current road is very good.
Yes, the route is pretty good. It has only 4 through road and each one is pretty short.

With the current traffic, this road it is very good to serve this connection. But if the traffic starts to increase a lot, we could have some problems. Let's see how it works with the new opening
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Old June 14th, 2013, 11:13 PM   #3673
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cronoser1 from Openstreetmap Burgos has uploaded a cool video of the A-73. It has started from the Villatoro access (low capacity one). The high capacity access is direct and will come from BU-30 tunnels from the east. It will be open hopefully this year or the next one.

Hope you enjoy it

Quote:
Originally Posted by cronoser1 View Post
Os paso el vídeo que hemos grabado esta mañana para comprobarlo, esperamos que os guste.
Vídeo: Burgos - Quintanaortuño

As you can see, the route is so smooth. I can't wait to try it by myself.
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Old June 16th, 2013, 06:29 PM   #3674
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Spain still does the same mistake as pre-crisis: builts motorways where traffic do not justify them, and meanwhile Madrid main access routes are saturated as they where built 40 years ago just adding another carriageway.
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Old June 16th, 2013, 06:37 PM   #3675
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Quote:
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Spain still does the same mistake as pre-crisis: builts motorways where traffic do not justify them, and meanwhile Madrid main access routes are saturated as they where built 40 years ago just adding another carriageway.
You are mixing concepts. Madrid main access routes cannot absorve any more traffic, and there is not physical space to build more highways (and it is totally inefficient ). The problem of Madrid is that is too big, and it would be needed to do a relocation of public institutions and other economic agents.

About A-73. This new highway is justified not only by itself: its a way to give a fast exist to north Burgos, a historical cause that was needed to be done (the train between Burgos and Santander was deleted in 1985).

Besides, this road will gain a lot of traffic in the next years, because it will absorve traffic that was avoiding this route (part from A-67, part from A-231, and also new traffic generated due to a reduction in time of travel).
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Old June 16th, 2013, 06:38 PM   #3676
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It depends on how you look at it. Many Spanish motorways were built in the € 2.5 - 5 million/km price range. It's not like there has been excessive spending on motorways, Spain was only able to build so many motorways because their construction cost was one of the lowest in the world, which means these are more economically viable than the average Italian or German motorway with similar traffic volumes.

The toll roads are another issue though. Toll roads require a constant stream of revenue (traffic) to service their debt (both capital construction costs and financing costs) and operational costs. Which means toll roads are less viable in Spain, especially those with low volumes. The construction cost of the toll roads around Madrid have been much lower than most toll roads in France or Italy.
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Old June 16th, 2013, 06:45 PM   #3677
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
It depends on how you look at it. Many Spanish motorways were built in the € 2.5 - 5 million/km price range. It's not like there has been excessive spending on motorways, Spain was only able to build so many motorways because their construction cost was one of the lowest in the world, which means these are more economically viable than the average Italian or German motorway with similar traffic volumes.
True story.

The final total cost of A-73 has been 48 million of euros, that is a low quantity of money for 10 km.

And I can ensure that traffic in A-73 will increase each year, because this route has a lot of potential and will take traffic from other routes ( I can explain this but maybe if you do not know well the are it will be difficult to understand).
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Old June 16th, 2013, 10:14 PM   #3678
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Spain still does the same mistake as pre-crisis: builts motorways where traffic do not justify them, and meanwhile Madrid main access routes are saturated as they where built 40 years ago just adding another carriageway.
Chris has explained quite well why in a country with mountains everywhere it is not so expensive to build motorways (and high speed railway lines)

I have a second theory... in the begining of the 19th century the road network was radial. They improved always roads, built new motorways but always with a radial scheme.

If you wanted to cross Spain corner to corner, there was a great deal of possibilities to have to go via Madrid.

But... what about building motorways 200km ahead from Madrid and avoiding to cross it?.

There are a lot of trucks that final destination is not Madrid but easiest way is via Madrid.


Had they buillt them, it wouldn't be so difficult to approach to Madrid because non-Madrid destination will choose a different route
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Old June 16th, 2013, 10:24 PM   #3679
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What I think happens is that, except for coastal areas, rural land is very cheap in Spain as well. And few people live dispersed on very small farms, they mostly concentrate on tiny villages (contrary to Italy, for instance).

In those circumstances, the threshold for infrastructure construction is cheaper.

Maybe the only real excesses are things like AP-7.
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Old June 16th, 2013, 10:28 PM   #3680
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And not specially... it would be more difficult for motorways approaching to Madrid because it is hard to find a good solution (best journey, few time, near towns, no village in the middle...)

In the case of the AP-7, here you have about 50 km where there are few, few, few villages in 2 or 3 km near the motorway...

https://maps.google.es/maps?q=pe%C3%...alenciana&z=10
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