daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old June 23rd, 2013, 05:15 PM   #3721
verreme
Registered User
 
verreme's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 1,392
Likes (Received): 645

Quote:
Originally Posted by RV View Post
What I was trying to say is that it's nonsense for me to build a parallel motorway when the existing one can be upgraded

It's no doubt Hiperronda was needed - what I'm saying is that 2x2 or 2x3 lanes would be perfectly enough and much more rentable.

I know there is no A-4 between Seville and Cadiz, but I don't understand the plans to built it, when a motorway between these two cities already exists - same as the famous N-II Alfajarín-Fraga - AP-2 is completely enough! If the toll is so problematic, then low it or quit it, it would be thousands of times more rentable than a new motorway, including the fact that these two perfect existing motorways would lose their traffic.

The only places where parallel motorways really make sense are the densely populated coastal areas in Andalucía, Levant and Catalonia.

Another strange thing: I just can not understand, why are the streets in new neighborhoods so freaking huge! Layouts of 5+5 or 2+4+4+2 and even 10-lane roundabouts can be most notoriously found in Madrid and Valencia areas with really tiny AADT values. In Valencia 4+4 or 5+5 seems to be the standard.
Plans to build A-4 and A-2 parallel to existing toll motorways were nothing but a bunch of void promises for locals. There was very little chance for them to get built, even if our economic boom would have lasted a few more years. There were many more important big projects before them on the list. It has to be said, though, that getting rid of the tolls would have costed as much as building a new motorway, or more. This is why there were plans to build A-27 strictly parallel to this road from Montblanc to Lleida (although as I said before they were not likely to see the green light; the only stretches of A-27 that started construction where the ones between Tarragona and Montblanc, which are indeed very necessary to connect Tarragona with AP-2 via a much shorter route). This is related to the low construction costs we were talking about earlier. It's not cheap to cancel a 30-plus year contract.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RV View Post
^Was not talkin' bout motorways, but common streets. 4+4 or 5+5 with service roads is quite a width for just a main street of a suburb.
Chris has answered you; these neighborhoods were planned to be much more densely populated. There have been mistakes though, such as not making Ronda Nord in Valencia a motorway-like road. Those huge roundabouts make little sense; there should be tunnels there. This city is full of other wide boulevards though, but they do their job very well; Valencia is one of the least-congested cities in Spain.
__________________
verreme no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old June 23rd, 2013, 05:20 PM   #3722
IndigoJo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Malden (London)
Posts: 37
Likes (Received): 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
What is this circle road?

Initially I thought of a test road of the nearby car reseller depot (or at least it looks like one), but that road is linked to the normal network.
I just followed the road up to the next roundabout, and there's not a single car on it -- perhaps the road has yet to be opened, which is why the lines on the road lead away from it at the junction shown in your link.
IndigoJo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 24th, 2013, 12:22 AM   #3723
Aokromes
Patatero Inside
 
Aokromes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Siberia-Gasteiz
Posts: 8,018
Likes (Received): 2652

Quote:
Originally Posted by adevahi View Post
Yes, ok, I agree that inside a city more than 3+3 is never needed
Tell that to Moscow :P
__________________
Si quieres compatibilidad con estandares y seguridad, ¿pq recomiendas Firefox y no Opera?
If you want compatibility with standards and security, ¿why do you recomend firefox and not Opera?

The only truly secure system is one that is powered off, cast in a block of concrete and sealed in a lead-lined room with armed guards - and even then I have my doubts. Gene Spafford.
I am Basque, not Russian, the "Siberia" thing is a joke.
Aokromes no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2013, 03:54 PM   #3724
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,596
Likes (Received): 19389

Another stretch of A-49 has been widened to 2x3 lanes, now stretching west from Sevilla to Sanlúcar la Mayor. This segment originally opened in 1973. Overall, 11 kilometers of A-49 have now been widened to 2x3 lanes, encompassing the entire suburban part of the autovía. A widening further west is not planned at this time.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 8th, 2013, 01:18 PM   #3725
verreme
Registered User
 
verreme's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 1,392
Likes (Received): 645

Video from CAMINOANDALUZ showing the widening of A-2 to 2x3 lanes from Torrejón de Ardoz to Guadalajara, east of Madrid, which was completed a few months ago:



Now A-2 has 50+ kilometers of 2x3 lanes. This widening was financed by shadow tolls, so budget cuts caused no delays.
__________________

MichiH, Suburbanist liked this post
verreme no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 8th, 2013, 03:56 PM   #3726
CNGL
Leudimin
 
CNGL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Huesca
Posts: 7,452
Likes (Received): 1932

Hell, he has been to Zaragoza and made a lap around Z-40 a while ago. The ring road is comprised of three sections:
- Northern bypass (Ronda Norte), built in two sections: from N-330 interchange to A-2/A-23 interchange, open in 1974 as part of the original AP-2 (then A-2) and with its mileposts, and from A-2/N-II interchange to N-330 interchange, which opened some years later (Any time between 1976 and 1978) also part of A-2 but with current Z-40 mileposts. Sometime in the 80s or 90s it was renumbered to N-II (with its mileposts) only to revert back to A-2 in 2003. The Z-40 designation was overlaid in 2008 when the ring was completed. Now is a superhighway, boasting as many as 2+3+3+2 lanes in some sections. For some reason is my favourite piece of motorway.
- Southern bypass (Ronda Sur), opened in 2003 from A-2/N-II interchange to A-68 exit. It has 2+2 lanes. Exit 31 was only signed recently as Arcosur started to get built, but the exit has been there since this part opened.
- Eastern bypass (Ronda Este), the last section to be built, opening in 2008. It includes a "fake tunnel" through the ex-town of Santa Isabel, just south of the A-2/A-23 interchange.

Here is the video he made:
__________________
Neque porro quisquam est qui dolorem ipsum, quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non nunquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem - Cicero, De finibus bonorum et malorum, from which placeholder text is derived.
CNGL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 8th, 2013, 04:01 PM   #3727
verreme
Registered User
 
verreme's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 1,392
Likes (Received): 645

The northern part of the ringroad was expanded between 2008 and 2011.
__________________
verreme no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 8th, 2013, 04:10 PM   #3728
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,533
Likes (Received): 21239

What is the story about the elimination of "Via Rápida" concept from Spanish road classification?
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old July 8th, 2013, 04:30 PM   #3729
Escargot
¡De Bescós, rediós!
 
Escargot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,986

There are some "vías rápidas" near the Cantabric sea and mountains, I think.
I was told that people there were so self-confident when overtaking on the central lane that accidents were frequent, and I was even told that signals saying "X days without fatal crashes" (the number was changeable, of course) were common.
Someone else will give us more information and relevant data.
Escargot no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 8th, 2013, 06:06 PM   #3730
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,778

There are no "via rapida" indeed because as they were planned, they do not exist since they were unclassified.

After being created in the papers, just few of them were built... and main roads were upgraded to motorways.

There wasn't a plan to create a network for this kind of roads. This is, it would have any sense to have a first level (motorways) and second level (via rapida, where roads could be quite good but not many traffic).


But for instance, in Catalonia, one road (now motorway) had a great deal of accidents. And the cost of building it was really more expensive than a normal road but not far away from a motorway. Hence... bye bye.
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 8th, 2013, 06:31 PM   #3731
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,596
Likes (Received): 19389

Galicia still has a number of these vías rápidas.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 8th, 2013, 11:18 PM   #3732
verreme
Registered User
 
verreme's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 1,392
Likes (Received): 645

So do other parts of Spain like Catalonia, though they were never classified as such. There are a lot of grade-separated, single-carriageway roads restricted to motor vehicles in Spain, but only a few of them carried vía rápida signage.
__________________
verreme no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2013, 03:09 AM   #3733
Peines
Peter
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Madrid
Posts: 873
Likes (Received): 99

Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
So do other parts of Spain like Catalonia, though they were never classified as such. There are a lot of grade-separated, single-carriageway roads restricted to motor vehicles in Spain, but only a few of them carried vía rápida signage.
Roads with single-carriageway and grade-separated restricted to motor vehicles are not really common, there are very rare and difficult to see, even some "Autovias" allow non-motor vehicles.

It's true that we have tons of single-carriageway and grade-separated roads, but restricted to motor vehicles not.
Peines no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2013, 07:15 AM   #3734
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,778

They still exist but not considered as them in the signals and driving code (they should be pointed in green)
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2013, 12:46 PM   #3735
verreme
Registered User
 
verreme's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 1,392
Likes (Received): 645

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peines View Post
Roads with single-carriageway and grade-separated restricted to motor vehicles are not really common, there are very rare and difficult to see, even some "Autovias" allow non-motor vehicles.

It's true that we have tons of single-carriageway and grade-separated roads, but restricted to motor vehicles not.
Here's one. I think C-15 has the same restrictions but there's no up-to-date Street View.
__________________
verreme no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2013, 01:55 PM   #3736
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,778

Why is the signal located so down from the ground?

I think there is a minimal heigh.
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2013, 02:41 PM   #3737
verreme
Registered User
 
verreme's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 1,392
Likes (Received): 645

Looks as it fell down and it's provisionally mounted until they replace the pole.
__________________
verreme no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2013, 10:55 PM   #3738
alsama
Registered User
 
alsama's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 573
Likes (Received): 610

A-12 Pamplona Logroño.

__________________

cuartango liked this post
alsama no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 17th, 2013, 12:14 AM   #3739
Fane40
Landes-40-SW of F.
 
Fane40's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Dax
Posts: 204
Likes (Received): 17

Yesterday, I was in Bergara (spanish Basque country) to deliver a customer and I took the AP 1 highway as always when I go there. Normally, I come back to France by the same road.
But when I go sometimes in Zumarraga, just 15 km away to the east, I take the Autovia 1 south of San Sebastian and the GI-632.
I decided to take this GI-632 yesterday between those cities and I saw there are roadworks on mountains to finish to connect A1 and AP 1 by a 2x2 autovia.
Somebody knows when roadworks will be finish ?
This old road remember the old A1 15 years ago when it was the war on the road to overtake line of trucks climbing the Etxegarrate pass.
Three lanes were not enough more the 7 "hairpin bend" curves .
I don't know if spanish authorities took off all trucks which leaved this mountain road !
Fane40 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 17th, 2013, 02:03 AM   #3740
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,778

It could be a pain in the neck to be understood.... but Basque authorities. Spanish police cannot act in anything related to traffic in the Basque country.


In any way.... the eurovignette is getting stronger as an idea because these cases you write.

It is not the only one. In Catalonia they upgraded the C-25 into 2x2 and a great deal of trucks go there now.
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
autopista, carreteras, españa, highways, motorways, road, spain, spain in the world, via rapida

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium