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Old September 17th, 2013, 10:52 PM   #3921
alserrod
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Yeah, but official name is Euskadi
There are several regions without official name (this is it will be "comunidad autónoma ....." and other ones (like this one) with official name
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Old September 18th, 2013, 10:26 PM   #3922
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No, official name is 'País Vasco', as can be seen in the database of the Statistics Institute of Spain.

There are some other areas with an AADT > 120,000 outside big metropolitan areas; I think Málaga, Seville, Granada - the latter is quite similar to Murcia. All three have new motorways planned, the main new infraestructure in Málaga is already on service.

AADT maps per province, 2012 data: http://www.fomento.es/NR/rdonlyres/1...provin2012.pdf

Edit:

Granada maximum AADT: 121,551
Málaga maximum AADT: 101,603 (after new motorway was opened; 2011 data: 177,429)
Sevilla maximum AADT: 149,664

The highest in Spain, as far as I know, in Madrid, 177,953.
Other busy roads can be found in Barcelona (132,354), Corunna (125,017), Valencia (120,215). No data for Basque Country nor Navarre, nor off-mainland Spain.
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Last edited by Boltzman; September 18th, 2013 at 11:07 PM.
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Old September 18th, 2013, 10:58 PM   #3923
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A very interesting document.

Which are metropolitan data for Bilbao and Barcelona?


Btw, according to Spanish version of the official text, I've checked that either Euskadi and Pais Vasco are both officially correct (but not comunidad autonoma...)
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Old September 19th, 2013, 12:01 AM   #3924
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Names in the basque country are in Spanish and Basque. Being both official (like País Vasco /Euskadi or San Sebastián /Donostia).
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Old September 19th, 2013, 12:47 AM   #3925
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Are there specific rules for road signage in regard of language?

For instance: will they sign "Vitoria" or "Gaestiz" on AP-68 south of La Rioja border?
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Old September 19th, 2013, 01:39 AM   #3926
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The rule is to use the official name. But when there are more than one official language, it's unpredictable.

As both Vitoria (Spanish) and Gasteiz (Basque) are official names, it will be always signposted as "Vitoria/Gasteiz" inside the Basque country, part of Navarre and the surrounding areas (where both languages are official) while sometimes, outside that region, it's just "Vitoria" (where Basque is not official but Spanish is).

There are cities whose official name is only in the co-oficial regional language like "A Coruña" (which in Spanish is "La Coruña") and it's signposted as "A Coruña" even on Spanish monolingual regions.

Names of places abroad (like towns in Portugal) are sometimes also signposted in the official language (Portuguese in this case).

This is not always the case in the Basque country and Catalonia as they manage the road network inside their autonomy. For example, I've read both "Francia" and "Frantzia" in Guipuzcoa and both "Zaragoza" and "Saragossa" in Catalonia (the official names are France and Zaragoza respectively).

Examples:
"A Coruña" in Madrid: https://maps.google.com/?ll=40.35561...85.06,,3,-0.55
"Vitoria" in Burgos: https://maps.google.com/?ll=42.32628...,0,-14.52&z=15
"Vitoria-Gasteiz" near Miranda de Ebro (Castille and Leon), near the autonomic border: https://maps.google.com/?ll=42.69530...,,0,-15.7&z=12 (note that "Francia" is also used here, maybe the rule only applies for cities and towns).
Inside the Basque Country (note that the names on the exit are in Spanish because that's a mostly-Spanish speaking region so their town halls chose to officialize only the Spanish name although Basque is also official there): https://maps.google.com/?ll=42.80259...,1,-14.12&z=18

Last edited by OriK; September 19th, 2013 at 02:27 AM.
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Old September 19th, 2013, 01:54 AM   #3927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boltzman View Post

AADT maps per province, 2012 data: http://www.fomento.es/NR/rdonlyres/1...provin2012.pdf

Golly. Less than 2000 a day on the AP7 south of Cartagena...how much did that cost again????
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Old September 19th, 2013, 02:34 AM   #3928
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If it's "AP" it's not a public expenditure so... who cares... (about how much did it cost... maybe we should care about the agreement regarding traffic and bankrupt).
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Old September 19th, 2013, 01:45 PM   #3929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
A very interesting document.

Which are metropolitan data for Bilbao and Barcelona?


Btw, according to Spanish version of the official text, I've checked that either Euskadi and Pais Vasco are both officially correct (but not comunidad autonoma...)





AADT maps for several metropolitan areas: http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyr...uadtra2012.pdf



Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Are there specific rules for road signage in regard of language?

For instance: will they sign "Vitoria" or "Gaestiz" on AP-68 south of La Rioja border?

You chose the worst example, because its official name is Vitoria-Gasteiz both in Basque and Spanish So, theoretically, when writing an offical document in Basque language, one should use "Vitoria-Gasteiz", not only "Gasteiz" --and the other way round for an official document in Spanish.


Regarding your question, there are indeed specific rules for road signage: Only the official name should be used. These rules are laxly applied, though. Here, for instance, only official names are used (notice also the usage of Lleida, the official Catalan name, instead of Lérida, the unofficial Spanish name). However, not far from there, only "Vitoria" is used.


Commonly, for road signs inside cities, only the name in the local language is used. So, in a Catalan-speaking town you can find "Saragossa" for Zaragoza, "Terol" for Teruel, "Osca" for Huesca, in a Basque-speaking village "Gasteiz" for Vitoria-Gasteiz, in a Spanish-speaking village "Vitoria" for the same city, etc.

Last edited by Iregua; September 19th, 2013 at 01:54 PM.
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Old September 19th, 2013, 02:33 PM   #3930
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In signs inside Catalonia, related to Aragonese villages, towns or cities the most current situation is this one:

- Roads depending of Fomento. Always official name (this is, only in Spanish)
- Roads depending of Catalan government. If it is a village/town located in the Aragonese side where Catalan is spoken (about 20 km away from Catalonia more or less), Catalan name. If it is not, Spanish name although Catalan name could be possible (in new signs and not so new ones, it is a long time I do not see "Saragossa" but only Zaragoza)
- Roads depending of a municipality.... who knows. Usually the same criteria than Catalan government. They are few cases indeed but you can find all of them: villages in the area where Catalan is spoken and written in Spanish -official name-, villages outside of that area and written in Catalan, and sometimes these last ones can have different translations...
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Old September 19th, 2013, 04:03 PM   #3931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
Golly. Less than 2000 a day on the AP7 south of Cartagena...how much did that cost again????
AP-7 was constructed in anticipation of massive development, similar to which has occurred along the coast between Cartagena and Benidorm. However, this never took off because of the crisis, so the AP-7 serves little traffic.

The inland A-7 is 20 kilometers shorter for through traffic (and it's free). A number of connecting autovías were also built between A-7 and AP-7 at ridiculously low cost. For example, construction of 23 km RM-3 has cost only € 56 million. 10 km RM-23 has cost only € 9 million (duplication of the existing road). 36 kilometers of RM-2 has cost only € 100 million.
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Old September 19th, 2013, 06:09 PM   #3932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
In signs inside Catalonia, related to Aragonese villages, towns or cities the most current situation is this one:

- Roads depending of Fomento. Always official name (this is, only in Spanish)
- Roads depending of Catalan government. If it is a village/town located in the Aragonese side where Catalan is spoken (about 20 km away from Catalonia more or less), Catalan name. If it is not, Spanish name although Catalan name could be possible (in new signs and not so new ones, it is a long time I do not see "Saragossa" but only Zaragoza)
- Roads depending of a municipality.... who knows. Usually the same criteria than Catalan government. They are few cases indeed but you can find all of them: villages in the area where Catalan is spoken and written in Spanish -official name-, villages outside of that area and written in Catalan, and sometimes these last ones can have different translations...
Very interesting (seriously. This interplay of languages fascinates me.) But I don't understand what you're trying to say in the last bit, the "Roads depending on* a municipality" section.

*It's "depend on" not "of". Although "belonging to" would sound more natural, I think.
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Old September 19th, 2013, 07:40 PM   #3933
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In Basque Country (including Navarre) as Orik said there are two official languages: basque and spanish. Majority of population use spanish in its daylife, specially in the provinces of Araba and Navarre. In Catalonia the situation is very different, because majority of people use the catalan language.

In Basque Country all the signals (including electronic ones) in roads and motorways are bilingual, but it's true that in some small towns in Gipuzkoa, Bizkaia and Navarre signals are only in basque.

Navarre is a special community regarding languages because there are three linguistic zones: basque zone, mixed zone and spanish zone. Basque is official in basque and mixed zone, but not in the spanish zone so in this zone signals are only in spanish.
I know this is a little confusing, but thing that are political facts. Politicians of ruling party in Navarre hate basque culture and language.
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Old September 19th, 2013, 09:22 PM   #3934
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I have a doubt about that, it's a bit offtopic but why Bilbao is official while Bilbo isn't?

Is Bilbao also valid in Basque and they chose that name as the only official one for simplicity?

Anyway... the Basque government was very kind with this... as it's not obvious that Vitoria is the same as Gasteiz unlike "A Coruña" being obviously the same that "La Coruña".

I sometimes find hard to figure out what city is it when written only in the local co-official language, for example with "Elx" which in Spanish is "Elche".
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Old September 19th, 2013, 09:50 PM   #3935
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Mav AADT in Madrid is M-30 with over 300,000, it can't be seen because it is a city-managed road.
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Old September 19th, 2013, 10:01 PM   #3936
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The highest volume segment of M-30 carried 303,000 vehicles per day in 2010. This is the highest known traffic volume in Europe.

http://www.madrid.es/portales/munima...diomaPrevio=es
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Old September 19th, 2013, 10:24 PM   #3937
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Didn´t know about that, I guessed that would be M-25 in London or something like that.
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Old September 19th, 2013, 10:32 PM   #3938
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I heard it before...

This is supposedly the busiest stretch of road in Europe:


Source

Edit: more images of the area:


Source


Source

Google Maps

Last edited by OriK; September 19th, 2013 at 10:41 PM.
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Old September 19th, 2013, 10:40 PM   #3939
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The highest volume of the M25 around London is 210,000 vehicles per day, and only on a short stretch. The entire M-30 along the eastern side of Madrid carries 240,000+ vehicles per day. It's quite impressive if you consider there are three more north-south routes within 10 kilometers. I think the entire screenline north-south traffic on M-30, M-40, M-45 & M-50 combined could be around 600,000 vehicles per day.

There is no evidence for any other motorway in Europe with a volume of over 250,000 vehicles per day. The MKAD around Moscow has no more than 2x5 lanes, so it is unlikely to carry more than 250,000 vehicles per day, which would be an extreme stretch on that road. A few stretches of motorway around Paris are around 250,000 vehicles per day, but not substantially above it. The same goes for a few motorways in the Netherlands.

You need at least 12-14 lanes to carry 300,000 vehicles per day, and there aren't many motorways that wide, thus there are few motorways capable of handling a volume of 250,000+. I'd say M-30's position as the highest volume road of Europe is quite solid, even though volumes have declined almost 10% due to the prolonged recession, the highest volume on M-30 was 324,000 vpd in 2009.

Last edited by ChrisZwolle; September 19th, 2013 at 11:04 PM.
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Old September 19th, 2013, 10:58 PM   #3940
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In addition to what ChrisZwole said, the most congested stretch of the M-30 is between A-1 and A-4 wich is effectively North-South.

The flow is more intense from the South to the North in the mornings and from the North to the South in the afternoons.

It's also a very curious motorway as it's designed to carry the traffic as effectively as possible... for example, if you stand on the left lane... most times you would end up in the right side some kilometers ahead as it's designed to avoid tailgating (the brakings produced by tailgaters are not only unsafe but also affect a lot to the traffic flow).

Something that I don't like but it's necessary is that the most important exists (like the A-4 or the South by-pass) are dessigned to catch most of the traffic of the road... I don't like it because I don't usually exit there... and if you want to continue instead of going out, you have to drive almost like if you wanted to take an exit... but that way the flow is better managed.
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