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Old November 12th, 2013, 07:03 PM   #4061
ChrisZwolle
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Well, it's built for summer peak traffic as well. You want value for tolls.
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Old November 12th, 2013, 07:27 PM   #4062
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I haven't found separated information for summer months, but as comparison, for example the stretch Montmeló-Papiol got a AADT of 107.210 veh/day in 2011, but during July 2011 the AADT was 121.207 veh/day (+13%). So, if we extrapolate that proportion for Girona it would be around 37.290-45.200 veh/day. Maybe a bit higher as the northern part of the AP-7 got a higher influence from tourism.
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Old November 12th, 2013, 08:36 PM   #4063
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reivajar View Post
I didn't remember trucks were banned on the N-II. They could apply that enforcement on the N-II from Zaragoza to Fraga too... -_-
They are banned since this Spring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RV View Post
2x4 for 33 000 AADT is just ridiculous! Especially in this economical situation.

2x3 is needed when AADT is 45 000-50 000 at least, 2x4 when it exceeds 120 000-130 000.
It's not ridiculous at all. Summer peaks can be much higher than 33.000 vpd; traffic in this motorway is highly seasonal. Plus, truck traffic is very high.

The enlargement to 2x4 was entirely paid with private money btw. Including the construction of the two new exits north and south of Girona. No public expense was involved.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 09:10 AM   #4064
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I am not sure, but I would say that AP-7 Girona bypass is not fully operational yet, as a new interchange that will connect the motorway to the N-II north of the city is still under construction. Once it is ready, most vehicles currently using the N-II will begin to use the toll free AP-7 Girona bypass, and therefore there will be a traffic increase.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 12:38 PM   #4065
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By now, if I am on the N-II, I prefer to use the old east by-pass. As you say, if direct link are not provided, there is a really small save of time.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 12:44 PM   #4066
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traffic congestion in Spain

Spain ranks the lowest in Europe among urban traffic congestion. Zaragoza is the least congested major urban area in Europe, with a travel time index (TTI) of 7%. By comparison, Moscow has the highest TTI of 65%. The TTI reflects the average delay per traveler without having the figures distorted by the size of a city.

The highest ranking Spanish urban area (= worst congestion) is Barcelona, which is the 44th most congested urban area in Europe with a TTI of 18%, followed by Palma de Mallorca at 17%.

All Spanish rankings;

44: Barcelona 18%
45: Palma de Mallorca 17%
51: Madrid 15%
53: Sevilla 14%
54: Murcia 13%
55: Valencia 12%
58: Málaga: 10%
59: Zaragoza 7%

http://www.tomtom.com/en_gb/trafficindex/
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Old November 13th, 2013, 01:09 PM   #4067
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I guess the results of Barcelona are related to its density and, above all, due to its geographical situation (between the sea and the mountains), which makes it complicated to build new roads. Other major Spanish cities (Madrid, Seville or Zaragoza) have the possibility of building as many ring roads as they need, as they have plenty of free space around them (if they have enough money, of course).

Anyway, Barcelona at least has one full ring road (Ronda de Dalt and Ronda Litoral), which is not common in other major seaside cities. The problem is that there is not enough space to build additional lanes, which is a cause of congestion in the stretch of the Ronda Litoral between Montjuic and the Olympic Village.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 01:22 PM   #4068
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That's true. The only city which slightly reminds me to Barcelona is Marseille.

On the other hand, a supposedly positive for Barcelona is a really easy streets network layout in most of the downtown area, which is supposed to help to handle traffic, but for some reason the congestion is worse (worse for the Spanish context, not for the rest of Europe).

About the Barcelona ringroads, it is a pity that Ronda Litoral was designed at a time than infrastructures were designed in completely different standards than today. On one hand I think that Ronda Litoral has a really amazing urban integration (probably among the best ones I've ever seen) but from the point of view of transit, it is small, and enlarging it can cost a fortune...

Anyway, as overall traffic congestion in Spain is quite small comparing with other European cities, considering as well that Spanish cities are much more compact (I am sure that the kind of more compact city planning used in Spain reduce the use of cars too).
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Old November 13th, 2013, 07:24 PM   #4069
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The expressway network of Barcelona is far better than the one of Marseille. Street layouts of both cities are different worlds. Car-wise, Barcelona has one of the best layouts in Europe. Only Valencia comes to mind as a city with similarly good traffic management in downtown.

I think these data should be compared to the cities' economic performance to get a better picture. For example, congestion in Barcelona's freeways dropped in about half since the beginning of the recession, due to a substantial decrease in traffic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reivajar View Post
By now, if I am on the N-II, I prefer to use the old east by-pass. As you say, if direct link are not provided, there is a really small save of time.
N-II bypass is steeper and has a long 80 km/h section. You can drive 120 km/h throughout the whole AP-7 bypass and will only have to stop at both toll gates. Worth it in my opinion.
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Old November 14th, 2013, 04:09 PM   #4070
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
No but I've driven there several times so I remember it.

They point St. Sebastien (right) and Barcelone (left) approaching to Bordeaux coming from Paris.

Saragosse is pointed near Bordeaux.
Never seen that
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Old November 14th, 2013, 04:14 PM   #4071
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
The expressway network of Barcelona is far better than the one of Marseille. Street layouts of both cities are different worlds. Car-wise, Barcelona has one of the best layouts in Europe. Only Valencia comes to mind as a city with similarly good traffic management in downtown.

I think these data should be compared to the cities' economic performance to get a better picture. For example, congestion in Barcelona's freeways dropped in about half since the beginning of the recession, due to a substantial decrease in traffic.

N-II bypass is steeper and has a long 80 km/h section. You can drive 120 km/h throughout the whole AP-7 bypass and will only have to stop at both toll gates. Worth it in my opinion.

When I was comparing Barcelona with Marseille I was refering only to the geographical situation and topography. Marseille is as well a coastal city surrounded by mountains and with a small coastal plain.

On bypassing Girona maybe you are right, but just for the fact of not stopping twice, I just keep my way on the N-II.
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Old November 15th, 2013, 09:06 PM   #4072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Spain ranks the lowest in Europe among urban traffic congestion. Zaragoza is the least congested major urban area in Europe, with a travel time index (TTI) of 7%. By comparison, Moscow has the highest TTI of 65%. The TTI reflects the average delay per traveler without having the figures distorted by the size of a city.

The highest ranking Spanish urban area (= worst congestion) is Barcelona, which is the 44th most congested urban area in Europe with a TTI of 18%, followed by Palma de Mallorca at 17%.

All Spanish rankings;

44: Barcelona 18%
45: Palma de Mallorca 17%
51: Madrid 15%
53: Sevilla 14%
54: Murcia 13%
55: Valencia 12%
58: Málaga: 10%
59: Zaragoza 7%

http://www.tomtom.com/en_gb/trafficindex/
This is great to hear that there is little-to-no vehicular traffic in Spain.

This helps especially in the future especially if I need to drive between Spain (Madrid Capital City) and Gibraltar.

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Old November 15th, 2013, 10:33 PM   #4073
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It's also notable that Madrid has by far the lowest congestion level of any major metropolitan area (5 million+ people) in the OECD with a TTI of 15%. The nearest competitors, Washington, Toronto & Melbourne, have a TTI of 27%, which is nearly double the Madrid rate.
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Old November 15th, 2013, 10:51 PM   #4074
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackraven View Post
This is great to hear that there is little-to-no vehicular traffic in Spain.

This helps especially in the future especially if I need to drive between Spain (Madrid Capital City) and Gibraltar.

From Sevilla to Cadiz (100km) you have to pay toll-motorway or suffer traffic. and in the entrance of Gibraltar (in the streets of La Linea de la Concepcion) will be surely a lot of traffic too. The rest are highways not-congestionated
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Old November 15th, 2013, 10:59 PM   #4075
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As well, there is another option through Málaga and the freeway A-7 along the coast. Not that comfortable than the tolled AP-7, but as well it is possible.
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Old November 15th, 2013, 11:58 PM   #4076
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackraven View Post
This is great to hear that there is little-to-no vehicular traffic in Spain.

This helps especially in the future especially if I need to drive between Spain (Madrid Capital City) and Gibraltar.

If you come from Madrid or from any border in the north except the Mediterranean, that would be the faster way. You will have a peaceful journey almost until the coast.

After driving 50 southern Madrid you'll have about 200 km absolutely flat and be careful with speed because you can be seriously fined. There was a time I had to travel every month in that area and at every time I watched a car stopped because a speed fine.

You'll enter in Andalucia in a quite new motorway (have a look to google maps, old and new one) and later keep quiet until the coast.

It will be where you will have to choose between tolled motorway or free motorway. Obviously quite peaceful the tolled one.

But arriving to La Linea can be difficult (it won't be a motorway but a road inside a town, with roundabouts and streets. Later taking out Spain can take your time and getting in again would be a really nightmare.

If you are quite interested you can think in parking near the border, crossing on foot and getting a Gibraltar bus, as far as one line approach until the customs.
If you do not carry baggage, high speed train can be a nice option.

And if you wanna fly, apart of Gibraltar airport you may consider Malaga airport.
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Old November 16th, 2013, 09:27 PM   #4077
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Hehe thanks for the replies.

Anyways, here's what Google Maps would usually suggest

Suggested routes
A-4
664 km, 6 hours 12 mins In current traffic: 6 hours 19 mins

A) Spain

1. Head southeast on M-30 toward Exit 23 B
9.6 km

2. Keep right to continue on Av. del Manzanares
1.5 km

3. Take exit 12 to merge onto A-4 toward Córdoba
283 km

4. Take exit 292 to merge onto E-902/A-44 toward Jaén/Granada/Málaga
119 km

5. Take exit 118 to merge onto A-92 toward Málaga/Algeciras/N-432/Córdoba/aeropuerto
63.4 km

6. Take exit 177 to merge onto A-92M toward Málaga
25.1 km

7. Keep left at the fork, follow signs for AP-46/A-45/Málaga and merge onto A-45
2.4 km

8. Take exit 116 on the left to merge onto AP-46 toward Málaga/Algeciras/Almería
Toll road
24.3 km

9. Take the exit toward A-7
Toll road
62 m

10. Keep right at the fork to continue toward A-7
Toll road
200 m

11. Keep left at the fork and merge onto A-7
Partial toll road
28.2 km

12. Continue onto AP-7
Partial toll road
81.8 km

13. Continue onto A-7
Partial toll road
14.1 km

14. Take exit 119 toward San Roque (Este)/La Linea/CA-34/Gibraltar
220 m

15. Turn right toward CA-34
850 m

16. Take the ramp to San Roque
200 m

17. Continue straight
280 m

18. Slight right onto CA-34
Go through 1 roundabout
2.8 km

19. At the roundabout, take the 2nd exit
350 m

20. Continue straight onto Callejón del Moro
18 m

21. Continue straight onto Calle Real
1.4 km

22. Continue onto Av. de España
Go through 3 roundabouts
1.4 km

23. At the roundabout, take the 1st exit onto Av. Príncipe de Asturias
Go through 1 roundabout
850 m

24. At the roundabout, take the 1st exit
500 m

25. Slight right toward Winston Churchill Avenue
Entering Gibraltar
400 m

26. Continue straight onto Winston Churchill Avenue
Go through 1 roundabout
1.0 km

27. At the roundabout, take the 1st exit onto Line Wall Road
Go through 1 roundabout
800 m

28. Turn left onto John Mackintosh Square
100 m

29. Turn left onto Main Street
17 m

B) Gibraltar
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Old November 16th, 2013, 09:34 PM   #4078
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Can you post it as a google maps link or so?

Just press in the link button and copy the URL
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Old November 17th, 2013, 01:40 AM   #4079
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic_carlos View Post
I guess the results of Barcelona are related to its density and, above all, due to its geographical situation (between the sea and the mountains), which makes it complicated to build new roads. Other major Spanish cities (Madrid, Seville or Zaragoza) have the possibility of building as many ring roads as they need, as they have plenty of free space around them (if they have enough money, of course).

Anyway, Barcelona at least has one full ring road (Ronda de Dalt and Ronda Litoral), which is not common in other major seaside cities. The problem is that there is not enough space to build additional lanes, which is a cause of congestion in the stretch of the Ronda Litoral between Montjuic and the Olympic Village.
Harmfully they destroyed the inner ringroad.
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Old November 17th, 2013, 01:49 AM   #4080
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Quote:
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Harmfully they destroyed the inner ringroad.
Which inner ringroad? The Ronda del Mig?
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