daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old December 18th, 2013, 02:56 PM   #4141
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,607
Likes (Received): 19391

Well, it's not just the volumes. The construction cost is very low and the safety benefits are huge. Spain is the only country in southern Europe that has a fatality rate substantially below EU average, thanks to the large autovía network. If they wanted to improve safety they also could've built a 2+1 road with median and interchanges, but those cost almost as much as a full autovía, so if there is a choice between those two, the autovía is not a weird solution.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old December 18th, 2013, 04:54 PM   #4142
Iregua
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 143
Likes (Received): 70

Sure, there has been a great improvement in road safety in Spain, but there are other factors to take into account, such as the point system or the raising awareness regarding road safety. In some other countries, deaths have also decreased significantly since 2001 (source, page 117), despite the fact that they haven't built so many motorways Besides, let's not forget that there are some specific roads with a relatively high concentration of accidents, many of which are parallel to tolled motorways: The N-I Burgos-Miranda, N-II Zaragoza-Fraga, N-IV Sevilla-Jerez, N-232 Zaragoza-Logroño, N-340 Valencia-Barcelona or the N-550 in Galicia... I'm sure death rates were higher there than in the routes Tordesillas -Zamora, Trujillo-Cáceres and so on, and perhaps it would've been cheaper to solve the problem as the motorways, though tolled, were already built.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
a 2+1 road with median and interchanges, but those cost almost as much as a full autovía
In the cases I mentioned the old national roads were quite good, only a few bypasses to avoid crossing villages, plus refurbishing some intersections, would've been enough.
__________________

RV liked this post
Iregua no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 18th, 2013, 04:56 PM   #4143
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,503
Likes (Received): 2112

I tend to believe that the largest factor in car-related deaths decrease is due to more recent cars having better (passive or active) safety systems. In Italy, people drive worse than 20 years ago.
g.spinoza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 18th, 2013, 04:59 PM   #4144
Reivajar
__________
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,081
Likes (Received): 3340

Well, I think all those factors need to be considered in the equation.

Nevertheless, one of the biggest improvement in death rate on Spanish roads was in the early 90's when the first generation of autovías was built.
Reivajar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 18th, 2013, 05:04 PM   #4145
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,607
Likes (Received): 19391

The most dangerous roads are those that have one lane each way, carry a substantial amount of truck traffic and long-distance traffic. This is exactly the type of roads that have been bypassed by new autovías.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 18th, 2013, 05:18 PM   #4146
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,791

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Well, it's not just the volumes. The construction cost is very low and the safety benefits are huge. Spain is the only country in southern Europe that has a fatality rate substantially below EU average, thanks to the large autovía network. If they wanted to improve safety they also could've built a 2+1 road with median and interchanges, but those cost almost as much as a full autovía, so if there is a choice between those two, the autovía is not a weird solution.


Furthermore, some of these little motorways, when have been enlarged and connected importand cities or "road hubs" have got traffic increased (and decreasing traffic over most used motorways)
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 18th, 2013, 05:28 PM   #4147
Iregua
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 143
Likes (Received): 70

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The most dangerous roads are those that have one lane each way, carry a substantial amount of truck traffic and long-distance traffic. This is exactly the type of roads that have been bypassed by new autovías.
Well, almost all types of roads have been bypassed by new autovías

I've added the share of truck traffic in the toll-free autovías I mentioned before (in Spain, as we all know, trucks avoid tolls):
A-11 Tordesillas-Zamora (66 km): 6,000-4,500 - 14%
A-15 Medinaceli-Soria (67 km): ~4,500 - 12% to 36%
A-40 Tarancón-Cuenca (78 km): 3,800-4,900 - 9%
A-58 Trujillo-Cáceres (48 km): 5,000-7,800 - 7%

Compare with:
N-I Burgos-Miranda: 9,000 - 48%
N-II Zaragoza-Fraga: 9,000 - 66%
N-232 Zaragoza-Tudela: 12,000 - 53%
N-340 north of Vinaròs: 13,500 - 32%
__________________

RV liked this post
Iregua no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 18th, 2013, 05:33 PM   #4148
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,791

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iregua View Post
Compare with:
N-I Burgos-Miranda: 9,000 - 48%
N-II Zaragoza-Fraga: 9,000 - 66%
N-232 Zaragoza-Tudela: 12,000 - 53%
N-340 north of Vinaròs: 13,500 - 32%


Two out of four!!!

Am I unlucky?
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 20th, 2013, 05:29 AM   #4149
disbesa
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bilbao
Posts: 28
Likes (Received): 3

Otur-Villapedre, 9,3 Km. long in A-8, Autovía del Cantábrico, Asturias region. Opened this last Monday.

http://youtu.be/TGBm3ZLa1QQ
http://youtu.be/7s3F7vCdQiA
disbesa no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 20th, 2013, 11:14 PM   #4150
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,791

A rock fall-down has caused 8 km jam in the N-330 / E-7 in Canfranc, quite close to Somport tunnel.
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2013, 04:28 PM   #4151
CNGL
Leudimin
 
CNGL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Huesca
Posts: 7,459
Likes (Received): 1936

The rockslide happened at kmpost 666 . Now that was... evil.
__________________
Neque porro quisquam est qui dolorem ipsum, quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non nunquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem - Cicero, De finibus bonorum et malorum, from which placeholder text is derived.
CNGL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2013, 04:54 PM   #4152
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,791

First strech between Salamanca and Portuguese border has been authorised to have a building contract

http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_.../131227-07.htm
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2013, 05:48 PM   #4153
RV
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Porvoo
Posts: 726
Likes (Received): 275

Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
First strech between Salamanca and Portuguese border has been authorised to have a building contract

http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_.../131227-07.htm
AADT expects, how much? Madrid has plenty of radial routes that have huge congestion problems because of lack of capacity (A-5 Mostoles-Navalcarnero, A-3 to Arganda...), and nothing is being done about that...
RV no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2013, 05:53 PM   #4154
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,607
Likes (Received): 19391

Because Madrid has some bottlenecks, nothing is allowed to be constructed elsewhere?

€ 24 million is 1.1% of the annual Fomento road budget and will likely not being spend in one budget year anyway.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2013, 05:57 PM   #4155
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,791

Furthermore... it is the only stretch from Lisbon to anywhere without motorway

Have you looked on a map?
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2013, 05:59 PM   #4156
Reivajar
__________
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,081
Likes (Received): 3340

Quote:
Originally Posted by RV View Post
AADT expects, how much? Madrid has plenty of radial routes that have huge congestion problems because of lack of capacity (A-5 Mostoles-Navalcarnero, A-3 to Arganda...), and nothing is being done about that...
For that stretch on the A-62, around 6.281 veh/day and 38% of heavy traffic.

Madrid has an over-designed network of motorways. There are some really particular points which get easily saturated specially in peak hours, but the overview is that you have ton of motorways: the parallel tolled motorways which double the A-2, A-3, A-4, A-42 and A-5 freeways + two full orbital expressways (M-30 even if the northern part is an urban boulevard, and M-40) and two partial orbital expressways (M-45 and M-50) + many other regional expressways and regional dual carriageways all around the metropolitan area.

Why do you think that Madrid need more motorways? Just with some particular works on those limiting stretches (A-5 in Móstoles, A-3 in Rivas, A-1 in Alcobendas or the exchange A-6 X M-50) would be enough for improving traffic in peak hours.
Reivajar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2013, 08:02 PM   #4157
adevahi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Sevilla, ciudad del Betis
Posts: 1,513
Likes (Received): 1067

There are news about SE-40.Talking about the needs or not of Madrid, before anyone say something about the needs of Sevilla is important to know that the 3rd and 4th section of SE-40 are not only important, they are IMPRESCINDIBLE.

This new talks about "two parts of the highway", but both belongs to the 3rd section of SE-40.

http://www.abcdesevilla.es/sevilla/2...312271653.html

Quote:
Government has autorised this friday buildings contract for 94.9 millions € for the construction of two parts of the highway SE-40, between the municipalities of Alcalá de Guadaíra and Dos Hermanas, both in the province of Sevilla. The first part, 4.1km long, goes from A-376 (Sevilla-Utrera) in Alcalá de Guadaíra to the N-IV in Dos Hermanas. The cost of the building contract is 32.2 millions.
Second part, of 4km, goes from N-IV in Dos Hermanas until the link with A-4, with a cost of 62.7 million.
According to the references, it is about giving Sevilla a new ringroad that let to the long-distance traffic to avoid the SE-30
adevahi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2013, 09:31 PM   #4158
RV
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Porvoo
Posts: 726
Likes (Received): 275

6800 is not enough for a motorway specially in this economical situation. A good 1+1-laned road with grade-separated intersections is sufficient. I think there are enough motorways from Lisbon to much more important Spanish cities.

What I was saying about Madrid, was that that sections need widening.

And yes, SE-40 (without Hiperronda-type overdesigning though) is imprescindible.
RV no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2013, 09:34 PM   #4159
Reivajar
__________
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,081
Likes (Received): 3340

Quote:
Originally Posted by RV View Post
6800 is not enough for a motorway specially in this economical situation. A good 1+1-laned road with grade-separated intersections is sufficient. I think there are enough motorways from Lisbon to much more important Spanish cities.

What I was saying about Madrid, was that that sections need widening.

And yes, SE-40 (without Hiperronda-type overdesigning though) is imprescindible.
Well, it is just for finishing the motorway, and around 3 or 4 km are needed in the Spanish side. It is not a big thing.

About the widening in Madrid, actually, some of them are planned and under construction.
Reivajar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2013, 09:42 PM   #4160
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,607
Likes (Received): 19391

A-62 is not just one of many motorways to Portugal, it is *the* motorway to Portugal for truck traffic from France and points beyond. And the missing link is only 5 kilometers, I don't understand the fuss about saving a few million euros to create a much less safe two-lane express road instead of a full standard autovía.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
autopista, carreteras, españa, highways, motorways, road, spain, spain in the world, via rapida

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium