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Old January 1st, 2014, 11:20 PM   #4181
Reivajar
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I think in the medium term only the stretch from Zaragoza to Alcañiz would be built... and I think that even in this case there is not enough traffic on the N-232 for doing it.
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Old January 1st, 2014, 11:27 PM   #4182
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It is very unlikely for this corridor to see completion in the near future. As of today, all we have is the will to do something in the far future. Plus, traffic levels there don't justify a motorway at all.
Rather, not in our lifetime, way to expensive to build and not enough traffic. It has 2 significant mountain passes and will require mega earthworks, much more so than for example C-25.
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 02:12 AM   #4183
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Nor any road traffic that justify building a motorway.
Current N232 has no traffic because doesn't allow to drive over 50 for a while. If a motorway is built there, a lot of traffic would go through it and would release other roads or motorways.

Just think on population in the coast and in thw Ebro valley or Basque country.

I know people who have as destination surroundings of Vinaroz and prefer to go via Tortosa
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 02:15 AM   #4184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reivajar View Post
I think in the medium term only the stretch from Zaragoza to Alcañiz would be built... and I think that even in this case there is not enough traffic on the N-232 for doing it.
Not Alcañiz but 15 km more through the coast. Project is ready (and kept in some folders...)

Beyond Valdealgorfa, at first it would be enough with a complete refurbishment of some pending stretches. If traffic really increase, it would be only 80 km more
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 02:19 AM   #4185
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Not Alcañiz but 15 km more through the coast. Project is ready (and kept in some folders...)

Beyond Valdealgorfa, at first it would be enough with a complete refurbishment of some pending stretches. If traffic really increase, it would be only 80 km more
I agree with you.

However, even before starting to build the motorway from El Burgo de Ebro (where the existing A-68 finishes starting from Zaragoza) to Alcañiz, the priority would be updating the mountainous stretches for making the route more appealing and having a more precise traffic forecast for building the autovía.
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 10:41 AM   #4186
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They are two different projects that can be done at the same time.

On one hand, building a motorway. Written project considers to duplicate lanes for 25 km and later a new 2x2.

On the other hand, upgrading one road with two awful zones.

By the way, it passes besides a speed cirxuit. In september when a Moto GP prix take place, traffic jam in a 1x1 is crazy
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 05:21 PM   #4187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
Current N232 has no traffic because doesn't allow to drive over 50 for a while. If a motorway is built there, a lot of traffic would go through it and would release other roads or motorways.

Just think on population in the coast and in thw Ebro valley or Basque country.

I know people who have as destination surroundings of Vinaroz and prefer to go via Tortosa
This reasoning (build a motorway so that it will attract traffic and develop the economy) has been proved wrong many times in Spain. Just think about the motorways in Castilla-La Mancha, such as CM-41 or A-40. They were built with the will to turn Toledo province a giant suburb of Madrid, but they are other factors that influence a region's economy. Now they are unused, expensive leftovers from a planning madness that is now gone. Building a costly road through nothing will hardly help the area. Same with the abandoned airports in Ciudad Real or Lleida.

Castellón coast is not as densely populated as Valencia or Tarragona. The detour via C-12, N-420 or AP-2 is not that long. Plus, there are no congestion problems on these roads, nor there will be in the near future, because there's no more population growth.
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 05:33 PM   #4188
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Spain definitely built too much infrastructure in some areas. However, they are not all comparable. 5.000 vehicles per day on an autovía is not much, but not a major problem if the construction cost was only € 5 million/km. Another story is the construction of airports like the Aeropuerto de Ciudad Real that cost € 1.1 billion and received no flights in a couple of years. You can construct more than 200 kilometers of autovía for that kind of money.

Another point being that the current poor economic circumstances in Spain (high unemployment) is not representative for the rest of the future. Traffic volumes are depressed due to the poor economy in Spain, so current traffic counts are lower than they will be if the economy picks up again. It's therefore too soon to write some autovías off as "unnecessary", though some of them will likely never gain much traffic if the planned developments near it do not materialize.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 03:56 PM   #4189
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http://www.publico.es/492807/mueren-...de-la-historia

Spain recorded 1128 traffic fatalities in 2013, the lowest ever. This would translate to a fatality rate of 24 per 1 million, which will likely make Spain the safest country in the world to drive in.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 04:06 PM   #4190
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
http://www.publico.es/492807/mueren-...de-la-historia

Spain recorded 1128 traffic fatalities in 2013, the lowest ever. This would translate to a fatality rate of 24 per 1 million, which will likely make Spain the safest country in the world to drive in.
It would probably be more proper to calculate safety rate in fatalities per registered vehicles. Otherwise the safest will turn out to be some place in the middle of Africa. Not because it's safe, but because hardly anyone has a car...
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 04:22 PM   #4191
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However, the media live in their own world and think it's only been a matter of laws pursuing dangerous driving. Yesterday I read an article about it in El País, one of the country's leading newspapers, and it didn't even mention the huge improvements in infrastructure or the safety of modern cars compared to older ones. In my opinion, this is at least as important as the points system for driving licences or prison penalties for dangerous driving.

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It would probably be more proper to calculate safety rate in fatalities per registered vehicles. Otherwise the safest will turn out to be some place in the middle of Africa. Not because it's safe, but because hardly anyone has a car...
I think that it's more fair to calculate the fatality rate per kilometers traveled. This takes into account the number of cars and how much they are used.

Low population density does also play a key role here, especially when compared to other European countries with similar infrastructure.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 04:27 PM   #4192
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Low population density does also play a key role here, especially when compared to other European countries.
The U.S. state of Montana has a very low population density, but a fatality rate of 225 per million inhabitants. That is 9 times as high as Spain. Similarly, the low population density of Northern Territory in Australia has a high fatality rate of 160 per million inhabitants. Both of these are significantly less safe than their respective national average.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 04:32 PM   #4193
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Low population density does also play a key role here, especially when compared to other European countries.
Spain is not densely populated compared to many other areas, however this "emptiness" is sometimes overstated particularly by Spanish themselves. The following countries entirely within Europe (no Turkey or Russia) are less dense than Spain: Romania, Greece, Croatia, Ukraine, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Ireland, Belarus, Lithuania, Montenegro, Latvia, Estonia, Sweden, Finland and Norway.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 04:38 PM   #4194
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Furthermore, the population is very unevenly distributed around Spain. The coasts, for example, concentrate lot of population and a big proportion of traffic.

I think a good basis criteria to compare this kind of statistics would be kilometers travelled as verreme says.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 06:57 PM   #4195
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Thanks for posting the news. It is a great news and hasn't appeared too much in press.

In 2012 numbers were good. Now we have the lowest record since 1960!!!!
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 07:05 PM   #4196
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The Spanish fatality rate in 2013 was 3 times lower than it was as recent as 2000, when 100 fatalities per 1 million people were recorded.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 07:38 PM   #4197
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To my best knowledge, worst year was 2000
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 08:15 PM   #4198
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The peak in traffic fatalities in Spain was around 1989-1990, when a rate of 150 killed per 1 million people was recorded (nearly 6,000 fatalities). However, this is both later and lower than most western countries, which saw peak rates in the 1960s and 1970s of 200 per 1 million or more.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 08:32 PM   #4199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The U.S. state of Montana has a very low population density, but a fatality rate of 225 per million inhabitants. That is 9 times as high as Spain. Similarly, the low population density of Northern Territory in Australia has a high fatality rate of 160 per million inhabitants. Both of these are significantly less safe than their respective national average.
Those are very bad rates. What's the reason? Empty straight roads that encourage speeding?
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 11:48 PM   #4200
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If I'm not wrong, nowadays new roads or refurbishements cannot have straights longer than 2 km to avoid accidents
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