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Old January 4th, 2014, 03:07 PM   #4201
verreme
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The U.S. state of Montana has a very low population density, but a fatality rate of 225 per million inhabitants. That is 9 times as high as Spain. Similarly, the low population density of Northern Territory in Australia has a high fatality rate of 160 per million inhabitants. Both of these are significantly less safe than their respective national average.
Well these are way too different from Spain. There's no point in making a comparison between them.

Weather conditions in Montana are way rougher than in most of Spain, and Australian Northern Territory has almost no or no freeways at all.
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Old January 4th, 2014, 04:15 PM   #4202
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I know, but someone suggested the low population density in much of Spain contributes to better traffic safety rates, while it is usually the opposite.
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Old January 4th, 2014, 05:41 PM   #4203
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Spain definitely built too much infrastructure in some areas. However, they are not all comparable. 5.000 vehicles per day on an autovía is not much, but not a major problem if the construction cost was only € 5 million/km.
Replacing N-232 with a motorway would be a very expensive motorway projects in Spain. You would have to build several large bridges and tunnels. The existing road has 2 large mountain passes (800+ meters in height difference) with 10% gradient on both climbs. I can't see the huge cost being justified when there are perfect alternatives.

If it was a strategically important road like A-23 or C-25 it would be a justified investment, but it isn't and will never be.
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Old January 5th, 2014, 12:32 AM   #4204
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Current project talks about:

- Second lane from El Burgo de Ebro to Fuentes. By passes recently opened in those villages were designed for second lane. Motorway project was approved considering those structures prior to opening indeed!.

- 2x2 from Fuentes de Ebro to Valdealgorfa (cross between N-420 and N-232). There are three villages with throughroads that will not have by-pass because of the A-68 project (saving projects therefore).

- Complete refurbishment from Valdealgorfa to Vinaroz. Just 1x1 at first.
This road is finished EXCEPT here (https://maps.google.es/?ll=40.78639,...84543&t=h&z=14), drop down on 2010 (just six months keeping on and would be finished but works hasn't been started again) and here (https://maps.google.es/?ll=40.552418...69086&t=h&z=13) the hardest point because the mountain pass.

Should the traffic increases, a 2x2 is considered but no project is over any desk about it. Anyway, A-7 will go through La Jana, as far as I know.


By the way... A-23 hasn't any tunnel and I do not expect that project would require any one.

If I'm not wrong, this is longest tunnel over all Iberian mountains (incluiding from northern Castille to Valencian community)... or at least as a national road

https://maps.google.es/?ll=40.779677...cbp=12,90,,0,0
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Old January 5th, 2014, 10:23 PM   #4205
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Hasn't the N420 from Tarragona to Valdealgorfa and the N211 from Alcañiz to Lleida bigger AADT than the N232 from Valdealgorfa to Vinaroz? Shouldn't the N420 and/or N211 get priority instead?
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Old January 5th, 2014, 11:08 PM   #4206
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Today be sure because you can drive 100 on N-420 and cannot on N-232 in some stretches.

Ministry took the decission to continue it... in the future through Vinaroz (La Jana) but only "an idea". Project talks only about the motorway until junction N-232/N-420
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Old January 6th, 2014, 01:00 AM   #4207
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Driving on highways reduces fatalities the most, since Espain has such a huge network, that plays a big part
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Old January 6th, 2014, 01:56 AM   #4208
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One of the highest reductions in fatalities on Spanish roads happened during the early 90's when most of the first generation of autovías were opened. For sure, having a large (or at least which covers a big proportion of the traffic) network of grade-separated roads is an important factor for reducing accidents.
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Old January 6th, 2014, 03:12 AM   #4209
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Perhaps now we drive less than before, less as we did in the 90's or 00's. Now we have better public transport, urban or AVE or plane.

And no mention about the improvements on safety in cars, most of the cars have more than 6 years.

Anyway now the traffic law is more harder than before, and we can see more "some green men with blue lights" on our roads
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Old January 6th, 2014, 05:22 AM   #4210
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Injury/deadth rates are often measured per km-passenger.
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Old January 6th, 2014, 08:37 PM   #4211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
Current project talks about:

- Second lane from El Burgo de Ebro to Fuentes. By passes recently opened in those villages were designed for second lane. Motorway project was approved considering those structures prior to opening indeed!.

- 2x2 from Fuentes de Ebro to Valdealgorfa (cross between N-420 and N-232). There are three villages with throughroads that will not have by-pass because of the A-68 project (saving projects therefore).

- Complete refurbishment from Valdealgorfa to Vinaroz. Just 1x1 at first.
This road is finished EXCEPT here (https://maps.google.es/?ll=40.78639,...84543&t=h&z=14), drop down on 2010 (just six months keeping on and would be finished but works hasn't been started again) and here (https://maps.google.es/?ll=40.552418...69086&t=h&z=13) the hardest point because the mountain pass.

Should the traffic increases, a 2x2 is considered but no project is over any desk about it. Anyway, A-7 will go through La Jana, as far as I know.


By the way... A-23 hasn't any tunnel and I do not expect that project would require any one.

If I'm not wrong, this is longest tunnel over all Iberian mountains (incluiding from northern Castille to Valencian community)... or at least as a national road

https://maps.google.es/?ll=40.779677...cbp=12,90,,0,0
You seem to talk about N-232 in every post. Regions relying on this corridor are not definitely the richest of Spain, but there are worse situations in the country. A huge part of this road is bypassed by AP-68, which is tolled, but at least you have a fast, safe alternative to N-232. Where there's no motorway at all, there's also no need to waste money in one, be it for the treacherous terrain, the lack of traffic and/or population density, or both.

I'd like to see a 1+1 expressway reaching Vinarós, but I understand it would be prohibitely expensive and the country has more urgent needs, such as fixing its economy.
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Old January 6th, 2014, 08:43 PM   #4212
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From Vinaroz to Pina de Ebro there is no tolled alternative
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Old January 7th, 2014, 12:29 PM   #4213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
http://www.publico.es/492807/mueren-...de-la-historia

Spain recorded 1128 traffic fatalities in 2013, the lowest ever. This would translate to a fatality rate of 24 per 1 million, which will likely make Spain the safest country in the world to drive in.

a graphic of traffic fatalities since 1960:




source
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Old January 7th, 2014, 03:12 PM   #4214
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I cannot see those figures going down this or next year. In Ireland increased economic activity ( in both north and south) has led to a rise in fatalities in 2013.

Half of all driver fatalities are aged under 35 in the south.

In both cases the lowest year for road fatalities was 2012 with 2011 second lowest and 2013 was a tad higher than 2011.

The key determinant is whether younger males who cannot afford a car ( or motorbike) now owing to high unemployment will be able to afford one in future.

I think youth unemployment in Spain has now peaked ( at an alarmingly high level of around 60%, I know) and that it will start to drop in H2 2014 and thereafter into 2015 and with that the accident stats will disimprove again.
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Old January 7th, 2014, 05:14 PM   #4215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
By the way... A-23 hasn't any tunnel and I do not expect that project would require any one.
A-23 does have tunnels. Two already built, another one U/C, one more planned, one under renovations and the last one to be renovated, as well as a couple false tunnels (One U/C, the other planned).

... though none of them South of Zaragoza .
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Old January 7th, 2014, 06:46 PM   #4216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
From Vinaroz to Pina de Ebro there is no tolled alternative
Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
You seem to talk about N-232 in every post. Regions relying on this corridor are not definitely the richest of Spain, but there are worse situations in the country. A huge part of this road is bypassed by AP-68, which is tolled, but at least you have a fast, safe alternative to N-232. Where there's no motorway at all, there's also no need to waste money in one, be it for the treacherous terrain, the lack of traffic and/or population density, or both.

I'd like to see a 1+1 expressway reaching Vinarós, but I understand it would be prohibitely expensive and the country has more urgent needs, such as fixing its economy.
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Old January 9th, 2014, 01:07 AM   #4217
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I think fatalities have fallen because of change in driving culture - back in 2000 Spain was like freaking India, now it is really decent and safe generally to drive on Spanish roads.
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Old January 9th, 2014, 01:42 AM   #4218
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Most of the reduction in fatalities is down to better roads, driver behaviour and better cars

However an increase to nearer 2000 fatalities is inevitable if.

1. Tourism increases AND
2. Youth employment decreases thereby enabling high risk demographics to get on the road again.
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Old January 9th, 2014, 10:31 AM   #4219
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Quote:
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I think fatalities have fallen because of change in driving culture - back in 2000 Spain was like freaking India, now it is really decent and safe generally to drive on Spanish roads.
How did Spain achieve this? Enforcement? I don't remember seeing any police patrol or devices during my 4 thousand km trip in Spain two years ago.
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Old January 9th, 2014, 10:50 AM   #4220
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First of all, improving motorways. In the 1990s there were no motorways at all and first of them built were quite bad. They were called "first generation motorways" and recently refurbished.

Building new motorways and improving other roads made too much.

But in 2006 the point driving licence made a lot of effort too!. It is known that average speed on motorways decreased 7 km/h in a couple of months after that point system.

Obviously, safer cars helps to decrease fatalities cases.
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