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Old April 6th, 2015, 07:47 PM   #5101
alserrod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Is there any comprehensive list of the toll road concessionaires with financial trouble and/or that are going through restructuring procedures?
To my next knowledge almost all (or all) opened between 2004-2008
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Old April 6th, 2015, 08:18 PM   #5102
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From El Mundo:


http://www.elmundo.es/grafico/econom...8228b4579.html
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Old April 6th, 2015, 08:28 PM   #5103
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What's it about? Looks like anything about financing problems. The only thing I can copy (to translate) is: "Click on order over black circles"...
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Old April 6th, 2015, 08:34 PM   #5104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
What's it about? Looks like anything about financing problems. The only thing I can copy (to translate) is: "Click on order over black circles"...
It is a list of highway concessionaires with financial problems, their total debt ("deuda" on the right, bar graph, € millions) and info about its shareholders (the key for each letter) and total investment ("inversion", missing some cases) of the project.
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Old April 6th, 2015, 08:51 PM   #5105
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Hmm, debt... Is it a "big" problem? Is bankruptcy impending? Has debt raised or dropped? Well, debt is not generally a "big" problem.... You can still be number one: > click <.
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Old April 6th, 2015, 10:06 PM   #5106
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Quote:
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Hmm, debt... Is it a "big" problem? Is bankruptcy impending? Has debt raised or dropped? Well, debt is not generally a "big" problem.... You can still be number one: > click <.
The title mentions "Toll Highways with Financial Problems"....
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Old April 7th, 2015, 05:41 PM   #5107
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The problem with these motorways is that they will never be able to pay the debt, because maintenance costs are higher than the money they get from the tolls.

Also, expropiation costs were huge. They expropiated double the average width of land (150 m instead of 75 m). Part of that land has been considered by some judges "urban", not "rural", so the price is 20-30 times higher.
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Old April 7th, 2015, 06:02 PM   #5108
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I'm having a hard time understanding why they built so many tolled autopistas parallel to existing free autovias. Even looking at Google Street View you can get a grasp of how few cars actually use them.
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Old April 7th, 2015, 06:09 PM   #5109
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Back in the booming years Madrid was growing like crazy. The Comunidad de Madrid added 1.5 million people between 1991 and 2011, plus the growth of several suburbs in neighboring communities.

If that growth continued, the existing free autovías would be overwhelmed with traffic. And as all through traffic in central Spain drives through the Madrid metro area, they wanted to provide guaranteed free-flow routes around the city, so they built all those radiales next to free autovías. But the growth slowed considerably due to the crisis, leaving unfinished housing developments and industrial areas all around the periphery.

And these radiales seem to be overpriced. They could've built a free autovía at a fraction of the cost, as most radiales were actually constructed through undeveloped land like most other cheap autovías on the Meseta.

Other toll roads like AP-36, AP-41 or AP-46 are only attractive during a few busy holiday weekends.
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Last edited by ChrisZwolle; April 7th, 2015 at 07:04 PM. Reason: typo
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Old April 7th, 2015, 07:02 PM   #5110
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Also, toll-free autovías were much worse when the tolled autopistas were planned. In fact, they were called N-I, N-II, N-III, N-IV, N-401 and N-V as if they were dual carriageways.

Therefore, the difference between choosing one or another was bigger. For instance, the bypass of Alcalá de Henares, was a simple 2+2, while nowadays it's a 2+3+3+2 motorway.
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Old April 7th, 2015, 07:52 PM   #5111
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I remember one corner near Alcala with a 3+2X2+1 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old April 7th, 2015, 08:25 PM   #5112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway89 View Post
Also, toll-free autovías were much worse when the tolled autopistas were planned. In fact, they were called N-I, N-II, N-III, N-IV, N-401 and N-V as if they were dual carriageways.

Therefore, the difference between choosing one or another was bigger. For instance, the bypass of Alcalá de Henares, was a simple 2+2, while nowadays it's a 2+3+3+2 motorway.
Yes, but the refurbishment of first-generation autovías was already planned when the toll radiales were built. So, even at pre-2008 urban growth rates, they would still handle much less traffic than expected.

Let's face it -the construction of these toll motorways was a plain corruption issue. The people behind the ubiquitous Spanish construction companies filled their pockets with our money, and now there are too many roads around Madrid.
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Old April 7th, 2015, 08:36 PM   #5113
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Let's face it -the construction of these toll motorways was a plain corruption issue. The people behind the ubiquitous Spanish construction companies filled their pockets with our money, and now there are too many roads around Madrid.
But I read about problems with rental costs in Madrid, which are rising even as the economy is still not fully recovered. Maybe they should build higher density suburbs with starter flats (aimed at young childless couples) and the like around the Radiales. +
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Old April 7th, 2015, 09:45 PM   #5114
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Speaking of useless roads, the regional Government of Castilla-La Mancha has announced that they will restart the paperwork to build the connection between Autovía de la Sagra (CM-41) with road CM-4010. This stretch of motorway started construction back in 2010, but it was stopped due to financial problems, and now it looks like this. The new road will likely not be a motorway (source). It will, however, address one of the flaws of this road: it goes nowhere and junctions connect nothing -for example, it crosses AP-41, but there's no way to go from one to the other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
But I read about problems with rental costs in Madrid, which are rising even as the economy is still not fully recovered. Maybe they should build higher density suburbs with starter flats (aimed at young childless couples) and the like around the Radiales. +
Considering that there are still thousands of unsold housing, the construction of even more new neighborhoods can hardly be justified.
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Old April 7th, 2015, 10:03 PM   #5115
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In other news, Xunta de Galicia has tendered the first stretch of the duplication of "Corredor do Morrazo" to motorway standard (source). This road connects Vigo and Cangas do Morrazo and has become a daily headline because of the many -often deadly- accidents there. It handles 20.000 vehicles a day, with peaks of much more in summer holidays, so its widening was a matter of time.

This first stretch is 3 kilometers long; budget is 20 million euro. The tender includes the rebuild of the junction with AP-9, where a flyover will replace the existing roundabout.

This road has been a victim of its own success -it opened in 2005, just 10 years ago. Perhaps having built it to full motorway standards in the first place would have spared more than a headache.
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Old April 7th, 2015, 10:13 PM   #5116
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Any idea about numbering? In addition, I think the article says, it should be completed by 2017.
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
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Been/driven: A, AND, B, CDN, CH, CZ, D, DK, E, EST, F, FIN, FL, GB, H, I, L, LV, LT, N, NL, P, PL, RO, S, SLO, USA (My cumulative travel mapping)
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Old April 7th, 2015, 11:21 PM   #5117
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Quote:
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Any idea about numbering? In addition, I think the article says, it should be completed by 2017.
That's right. However, works have not begun yet. Bidders can submit their offers until May the 27th, and then the best one will be selected in summer. Construction is expected to begin in autumn 2015.

About the number, there's no information in the official press release. It will obviously be AG-xx.
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Old April 8th, 2015, 12:23 AM   #5118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Other toll roads like AP-36, AP-41 or AP-46 are only attractive during a few busy holiday weekends.
AP-46 bypasses the oldest and worst section of A-45, which won't be rebuilt unlike the expressways around Madrid, and (I believe) has a relatively cheap toll for the terrain it crosses. This has attracted some traffic, and has helped making it the only toll motorway from the booming era that is not also a troll motorway.
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Old April 8th, 2015, 12:46 AM   #5119
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Do they have any plans to improve any sector of N-260 on its eastern sector?
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Old April 9th, 2015, 12:24 AM   #5120
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I do not know... but nothing at all in the western side
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