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Old June 7th, 2015, 02:17 PM   #5301
verreme
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Some road-related news from Fomento that have been released over the past two weeks:

- The widening of A-5 to 2x3 lanes in Madrid, between kilometers 18 and 22, has been tendered. Budget is 8.560.509,80€. This was a troublesome bottleneck that had been discussed in this thread some pages before. Press release

- Also tendered was the construction of the first stretch of the duplication of N-IV South of Sevilla, between Dos Hermanas and Los Palacios y Villafranca. Budget is 66.516.272,57€ for 8,4 kilometers of road. There are only two junctions so I assume this road will be motorway-like, though the press release does not mention it being a motorway.

- The Southbound carriageway of Los Visos bypass opened May 22, 2015. This means that both carriageways are now operational. This road bypasses some very dangerous bends on A-4 just West of Córdoba. Press release

- The duplication of SG-20 has also been tendered. This road connects A-601 with AP-61 and according to Fomento data has an AADT of up to 18.000 vehicles a day. Budget is 66.7 million € and the length of the whole road is 15.5 kilometers. Press release

- Another motorway that is in earlier planning stages is A-12 between Burgos and Logroño in Burgos province. Fomento approved in May the 18th the project of the first stretch of this motorway, Ibeas de Juarros-Burgos, which will be 4,2 kilometers long and has an estimated budget of 67 million €. Press release

- Finally, Fomento has also approved the first stage of the new project of Benissa bypass on N-332 in Alicante province. Works on this bypass started in 2007 and were halted in 2009 when the construction company went bust. The new project costs almost double, as it includes some modifications that will translate to much higher expropiation costs. However, opening is not expected until at least 2018. Press release
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Old June 7th, 2015, 03:12 PM   #5302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
Some road-related news from Fomento that have been released over the past two weeks:
¡Gracias!

I'll add the new motorway-like projects to the u/c list as soon as works will be started. It's sometimes hard to find proper data, so I began to collect more data offline of not yet u/c projects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
- Also tendered was the construction of the first stretch of the duplication of N-IV South of Sevilla, between Dos Hermanas and Los Palacios y Villafranca. Budget is 66.516.272,57€ for 8,4 kilometers of road. There are only two junctions so I assume this road will be motorway-like, though the press release does not mention it being a motorway.
Is "Enlace" = grade-separated interchange or could it also just be an at-grade "junction"? If there will be an i/c for N-8029, it's motorway standard:

N-IV: Dos Hermanas-South (AP4) – Los Palacios-North 8.4km (2015/16 to ?) – projectmap

Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
- The Southbound carriageway of Los Visos bypass opened May 22, 2015. This means that both carriageways are now operational. This road bypasses some very dangerous bends on A-4 just West of Córdoba. Press release
Can't find the post but I think I wrote that this realignment is not worth to be added to the list because the distance to the existing motorway carriageways - which are closed now - is too close.

Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
- The duplication of SG-20 has also been tendered. This road connects A-601 with AP-61 and according to Fomento data has an AADT of up to 18.000 vehicles a day. Budget is 66.7 million € and the length of the whole road is 15.5 kilometers. Press release
Two lots (8.4+7.1km) but I will most likely make one project:

SG20: Segovia-North (A601) – Segovia-South (AP61) 15.5km (2015/16 to ?) – projectmap

Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
- Another motorway that is in earlier planning stages is A-12 between Burgos and Logroño in Burgos province. Fomento approved in May the 18th the project of the first stretch of this motorway, Ibeas de Juarros-Burgos, which will be 4,2 kilometers long and has an estimated budget of 67 million €. Press release
Earlier planning stage. Hmmm....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway89 View Post
The project of the A-12 from Santo Domingo to Burgos is currently being drawn up by engineers. It goes on at a (very) slow pace.
As you said, works between Burgos and Ibeas de Juarros are expected to begin in late 2015 following a PPP method. That's the most necessary segment at the moment, as it carries commuter traffic from/to Burgos. Map: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=es&lat=42...81629&z=14&m=o
A12: Burgos-East (AP1) – Ibeas de Juarros 4.2km (2015/16 to ?) – projectmap

Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
- Finally, Fomento has also approved the first stage of the new project of Benissa bypass on N-332 in Alicante province. Works on this bypass started in 2007 and were halted in 2009 when the construction company went bust. The new project costs almost double, as it includes some modifications that will translate to much higher expropiation costs. However, opening is not expected until at least 2018. Press release
It's this section, isn't it?

A38: Benissa-North – Benissa-South 4.5km (2007 to >= 2018) – ? – map

Does it really get motorway standard?

Quote:
Consiste en una carretera convencional de 4,5 km, con carriles adicionales para vehículos lentos en ambos sentidos.

Google translated:
It consists of a conventional road 4.5 km, with additional lanes for slow vehicles in both directions.
Slow vehicles... Maybe it will not be access-controlled (not mandatory for my list)? Will the interchanges be grade-separated?


More projects from my offline list of not yet u/c projects:

A44: Las Gabias (A338) – Alhendin 6.1km (2015/16 to ?) – ? – map
A62: Nuevo Poblado (P/E border) – Fuentes de Onoro 5km (2nd half 2015 to April 2018) – ? – map
AG??: Domaio – Domaio (AP9) 3.3km (Fall 2015 to 2017) [2nd c/w] – projectmap
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

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Old June 7th, 2015, 07:59 PM   #5303
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Enlace in this case is "junction". It is a word used to point somewhere in a road map where the other way would be the km. and road number or the GPS position or that stuff
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Old June 7th, 2015, 08:05 PM   #5304
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I often read "Enlace" on wikipedia and in the press releases. If I got you right, it could mean both!? What do you think when you read the press release?
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

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Old June 7th, 2015, 08:17 PM   #5305
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I asked several forumers from Andalucia and said this was the stretch to have a 2x2

https://www.google.es/maps/dir/37.25...37.1423424!3e0

So... here's "translation" about "enlace"


In addition, Tolled motorway will not lose incomings 'cos toll is the same if you take off in Los Palacios or continue until Dos Hermanas/Seville
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Old June 8th, 2015, 11:54 PM   #5306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
¡Gracias!

I'll add the new motorway-like projects to the u/c list as soon as works will be started. It's sometimes hard to find proper data, so I began to collect more data offline of not yet u/c projects.



Is "Enlace" = grade-separated interchange or could it also just be an at-grade "junction"? If there will be an i/c for N-8029, it's motorway standard:

N-IV: Dos Hermanas-South (AP4) – Los Palacios-North 8.4km (2015/16 to ?) – projectmap

"Enlace" can mean both grade-separated and at-grade. The exact translation is "junction", so as vague as it gets .

Can't find the post but I think I wrote that this realignment is not worth to be added to the list because the distance to the existing motorway carriageways - which are closed now - is too close.

Agree.

Two lots (8.4+7.1km) but I will most likely make one project:

SG20: Segovia-North (A601) – Segovia-South (AP61) 15.5km (2015/16 to ?) – projectmap



Earlier planning stage. Hmmm....



A12: Burgos-East (AP1) – Ibeas de Juarros 4.2km (2015/16 to ?) – projectmap



It's this section, isn't it?

Yes. However, what has been approved is the project. It has yet to be tendered. That's why I said "earlier planning stage", because other projects in the news list I made were already in the tendering process.

A38: Benissa-North – Benissa-South 4.5km (2007 to >= 2018) – ? – map

Does it really get motorway standard?

Slow vehicles... Maybe it will not be access-controlled (not mandatory for my list)? Will the interchanges be grade-separated?

"Carretera convencional" means that it's not a motorway. This road will be two-lane, with occasional climbing lanes. I don't know if it will be banned for slow vehicles, nor if it will have at-grade intersections or if it will be ready for a duplication into A-38. It won't definitely be a motorway, at least not anytime soon, so I'd scrap it off your list.

More projects from my offline list of not yet u/c projects:

A44: Las Gabias (A338) – Alhendin 6.1km (2015/16 to ?) – ? – map
A62: Nuevo Poblado (P/E border) – Fuentes de Onoro 5km (2nd half 2015 to April 2018) – ? – map
AG??: Domaio – Domaio (AP9) 3.3km (Fall 2015 to 2017) [2nd c/w] – projectmap
Answers in bold and italic
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Old June 9th, 2015, 12:02 AM   #5307
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I took a huge trip through Spain over the past two weeks (map)

Although it was my 4th time in Spain (2nd time alone in a car), it was the first time I drove so far into Spain. Some notes;

Motorways
The quality of motorways was generally OK. However, some stretches need repaving, both on toll roads and toll-free roads. I remember the bridge on A-66 just north of Sevilla with a pavement that looks like gravel. Very loud and uncomfortable. The amount of potholes was fairly limited though, but some older autovías were patched up to a point it makes sense to repave the entire roadway.

The capacity of the motorways is generally very generous. There are plenty of wide motorways around Barcelona, and AP-7 even has eight lanes for quite a long stretch in the Girona area. The six-lane segment ends just after Tarragona. The new A-7 around Málaga is also very good.

The one motorway I've driven with less-than-stellar capacity was A-7 between Alicante and Murcia, where six lanes would be more comfortable. This is a busy corridor and the six-lane segment already ends where AP-7 splits off to Cartagena. Also, A-7 runs in a TOTSO at Murcia, with a short and overloaded merge. Of course, these were one-time observations.

SE-30 through Sevilla is substandard, especially the bridge across the Río Guadalquivir, but also the tight curves. SE-40 will help a lot for through traffic, in particular along the eastern and southern side of Sevilla.

Rest areas
The rest areas along toll roads are satisfactory. However, they are generally terrible along autovías if you want to do anything more than refueling. There are no picnic tables or benches at most locations. Also; I've almost never seen them offering an opportunity to clean the windows. The fuel prices at exits near autovías are not much different than directly along toll roads. I expected more discounts, though Spain remains very cheap compared to the Netherlands or France, which are € 0.40 and € 0.20 more expensive along the motorway, respectively. The cheapest I've refueled was € 1.28 per liter at the A-8 exit at Unquera. But they were generally in the € 1.32 - 1.35 range.

Also notable (to me at least) was the fact that at many gas stations they would pump the gas for you. I'm not sure if you're supposed to tip them, I never did and haven't gotten any strange reactions to my not tipping. Having people pump the gas for you is very unusual in the Netherlands, France or Germany, save for perhaps the local mom & pop gas station.

Signage
I found the signage to be adequate. However, sometimes there are really a lot of road numbers, and the color difference between regional or provincial roads is not that apparant to the occasional visitor. A-7 is still signed as CV-40 north of Alcoi. Also, some stretches of A-7 are still numbered N-340 on the mileposts.

I was surprised by the lack of long-distance signage on some autovías. For instance on A-66 you won't see the next control city on the signs until you're at the first one. For example heading north on A-66 from Sevilla, it shows Mérida, which makes sense. But the next control city doesn't appear until you enter Mérida, which makes it looks like the motorway would end at Mérida, as nothing is shown beyond it. Especially for a long-distance route like A-66 this was strange.

Road signs
In my opinion there is an overkill of road signs in Spain. Manufacturers must do a very good business. Passing or no passing is not only indicated by road markings, but also by road signs, mounted on both sides of the road. As many road are curvy, this leads to passing/no passing signs every few hundred meters.

In addition, there are way too much advisory speed limits, at almost every curve and tunnel. Much more than in other countries, and they tend to be too low anyway. I was approaching a curve on A-8 near Bilbao and there was a whole circus of signs saying '80' with electronic signs and even speed cameras, so I thought, 'okay, this must be the craziest curve I've ever seen on a motorway'. But it was nothing special, it could easily be driven at 100 km/h. In most cases a simple 'curve left/right' sign would be sufficient.

Also, there are far too much speed limit signs when you approach a situation where you need to slow down. They post several speed limit signs at exits, off ramps and when approaching roundabouts. A little common sense would be sufficient imho.

Driver behaviour
As others have pointed out to me, driving in Spain is quite relaxing. The traffic volumes outside of cities are generally low. The busiest locations I've driven were A-7 around Valencia (lots of trucks!) and SE-30 through Sevilla, otherwise it wasn't too bad around Barcelona or Málaga. Murcia and Granada were also somewhat busy, but nothing serious.

Spanish drivers are quite well behaved. They don't hog left lanes, use signals, and don't speed excessively. They also don't honk much (could be different in inner cities?) The only thing they don't seem to know their way with, are motorways with 3 or more lanes. I've seen people staying in the middle lanes for no reason. AP-7 around Girona was especially bad with eight lanes, light traffic and almost nobody using the right lane.

Other than that I had a blast driving in Spain. It was by far the longest road trip I've ever driven (6577 km) and I've seen many regions of Spain. It is such a varied country.
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Old June 9th, 2015, 12:10 AM   #5308
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Wow! You had one hell of a trip

A-7 between Elche and Murcia will get some relief when A-33 is complete. It will take most long-distance traffic out of the coast. As for road signs, you're absolutely right -we have too many of them, especially speed limit signs when approaching intersections or on offramps. And it's not uncommon for the police to set up a speed trap at these locations with the sole purpose of making money from motorists that just happen to brake later.

I'm surprised that you didn't have to pump your own fuel in any rest area. It's definitely unusual in my region, and when I travel outside it I only come across self-service petrol stations.

Spanish big cities are not very different from motorways when it comes to driving -only the amount of motorcycles may be a bit surprising for a non-Southern European driver. Barcelona is the 2nd city with the most motorcycles in the world. Anyway, it's not especially dangerous. Just live and let live
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Old June 9th, 2015, 08:15 AM   #5309
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I'll suggest you to get parallel free motorways instead of AP7 next time. A new lane to drive and free. There are some stretches of A7 near Tarragona but CV10 near Castellon too
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Old June 9th, 2015, 09:05 AM   #5310
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Quote:
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I'm surprised that you didn't have to pump your own fuel in any rest area. It's definitely unusual in my region, and when I travel outside it I only come across self-service petrol stations.
It happened to me all over Spain. Except the refueling in Catalonia along AP-7. I expected that the Carrefour fuel stations would be cheaper than elsewhere, but this didn't seem to be the case.

I also noticed how few foreign cars and trucks there are once you get past Catalonia. I've seen only a few Polish and Romanian trucks, but the far majority were Spanish trucks. In France or Germany a large share of trucks have foreign plates.

I also saw practically no foreign cars anymore once I got south of Valencia. On the campsites there were mostly Spanish people, and some Germans, but almost no British or even Dutch people. I know it wasn't peak season, but you can usually see Dutch cars all over France, whatever time of the year. On my first day I drove non-motorway all the way to Vichy and passed numerous Dutch cars.
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Old June 9th, 2015, 09:13 AM   #5311
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In low-cost service stations like Carrefour it is usual to have terribly prices... providing you use your customer card. It is free but you will not have a lower price. Instead of it, you will have a check to use in the supermarket. It is quite often (they made, therefore, double business, you may go to petrol station and to supermarket)

Once driving in the A-2 I could see almost all foreing plates in trucks but as far from Europe they were, as usual they were. But in the A-23 I barely saw only French plates.

Furthermore... think that for a long distance two people journey, a low cost flight and a rent-a-car will be cheaper than toll, fuel, etc... providing you do not have your car full of baggages. In summer, for a whole family and a lot of luggage it can worth the car but it is often to see people avoiding those km by plane and renting a car. It is cheaper.
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Old June 9th, 2015, 09:19 AM   #5312
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I suppose most foreign cars in southern Spain are of long-term stayers (snow birds) where renting a car for several months would be more expensive than driving all the way down there.

For me it was probably cheaper as well to fly to Málaga and drive a car. But the fun was driving all the way down there.

As some of you may know I only drive a small city car; a 2011 Hyundai i10. But it held out surprisingly well. The seats are amazing, it never hurt my back or other stiff muscles, which happened to me in other cars on long trips. Also when driving it feels like a larger car, especially compared to other vehicles in this class like the VW Up or Peugeot 107. The i10 is actually registered as an MPV. It has 3 back seats (though I wouldn't recommend 3 adults in the back!)
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Old June 9th, 2015, 09:50 AM   #5313
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Or.... having two cars, one in their own country, another one in Spain. You must pay two taxes and assurances but avoid tolls and fuel (and renting)

By the way, did you cross to Portugal?
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Old June 9th, 2015, 10:02 AM   #5314
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Yes I stayed near Marvão for one night. I wanted to stay two nights but it was very hot there, and the campsite had very little shade (just small olive trees), so I went to Sierra de Francia in Salamanca province.

I drove the entire length of A-66 / AP-66 from Sevilla to Gijón. The AP-66 in northern León province is spectacular. The Negrón Tunnel is a clear dividing line. South of the tunnel it was warm and sunny with no cloud in the sky. Just 4 kilometers north it looked like I suddenly ended up in Ireland or something, with very green and lush landscapes with rain and low-hanging clouds.
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Old June 9th, 2015, 10:10 AM   #5315
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Step by step....


after finishing the "Silver route motorway" (Autopista Vía de la Plata) Sevilla-Gijon, I would state that you are the first SSC forumer who drives corner to corner...

the northern side in Spain has a lot of thing in common with Ireland, Bretagne and G.Britain, not only the weather but also the culture. You will see many celtic signs in that area. It is so weird because you can come from the Meseta (coming from Leon) or Ebro valley (Miranda de Ebro) and suddenly you are in the called "Green coast". In Spain it is used more as an area to have a rest rather to have a bath, but quite cool.

The AP-66 is not the best motorway in Spain. It was built as cheap as they could with many curves. They only wanted to assure to be able to drive 120 km/h but do not try to drive faster...
and the tunnel you crossed, at the beginning was a single 1x1 in the motorway. It took too much to build second tunnel (like nowadays)


Next time you drive there, if you wanna be off-road I can suggest you some roads between Leon/Palencia and the point you want in the Cantabric. Just say as many mountain passes you wanna drive, as many scenic points to stop you want... and I'll prepare a route.
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Old June 9th, 2015, 03:03 PM   #5316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Motorways
I remember the bridge on A-66 just north of Sevilla with a pavement that looks like gravel. Very loud and uncomfortable. The amount of potholes was fairly limited though, but some older autovías were patched up to a point it makes sense to repave the entire roadway.

SE-30 through Sevilla is substandard, especially the bridge across the Río Guadalquivir, but also the tight curves. SE-40 will help a lot for through traffic, in particular along the eastern and southern side of Sevilla.
Is substandard, yes, you can't imagine how much polemic has been, in this city, that bridge (the one in the south) since the day it was opened in 1991 (this day was the first traffic jam and nowadays the area have 300.000 people more) but can't agree with your conclussion: north and west need SE-40 more than the east. However, since the east part of SE-40 is done, some of the "help" is already working.

(Apart: boh bridges are across the Río Guadalquivir)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Road signs
Also, there are far too much speed limit signs when you approach a situation where you need to slow down. They post several speed limit signs at exits, off ramps and when approaching roundabouts. A little common sense would be sufficient imho.
Were you in el Ejido, maybe? "Never enough", thought a politician from there:



Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Driver behaviour
As others have pointed out to me, driving in Spain is quite relaxing. The traffic volumes outside of cities are generally low. The busiest locations I've driven were A-7 around Valencia (lots of trucks!) and SE-30 through Sevilla, otherwise it wasn't too bad around Barcelona or Málaga. Murcia and Granada were also somewhat busy, but nothing serious.
I like to see that a foreign person say that SE-30 is one of the busiest. We have seen during 20 years projects and projects of different roads never done (SE-35, SE-40, new bridges, longer SE-20) while these years, overvalorated infrastructures were done in all the country
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Old June 9th, 2015, 04:38 PM   #5317
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Did you drive along any A-7 segment in Malaga-Cádiz provinces, between Fuengirola and Guadiaro? (the old duplicated N-340 road). Did you get a good impression of it?
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Old June 9th, 2015, 04:53 PM   #5318
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No I took AP-7. By far most traffic exited at A-7 before each toll section. AP-7 tolls are a rip-off, but at least it's a pleasant ride.
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Old June 9th, 2015, 05:38 PM   #5319
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I'm surprised you didn't mention the roundabout at the N-620/A-66 junction in Salamanca. It's much worse, IMO, than the TOTSO in the A-7 in Murcia.

About gas stations and prices: I usually refuel at a self-service station next to Alcampo (mall) here in Logroño. Current price for 95 petrol is € 1.177 / litre. In the Repsol station at the rest area of the AP-68, it is € 1.339. About tipping - you needn't tip.

About speed limit signs: I think there's a law saying that the maximum difference from one speed limit to the next is 20 or 30 km/h. That's why you find 100-80-60-40 when leaving a motorway or approaching a roundabout.

I completely agree with you about middle lane hoggers. It's exasperating.

Foreing cars are common in July and August on some motorways because of the people of North African or Portuguese descent working in France, the Benelux, Germany or Switzerland. For instance, the AP-1 towards Burgos is usually full of cars with French, Luxembourgish, Belgian or Dutch plates in the summer. Once in Burgos, traffic is derived to the A-231 towards northern Portugal, the A-62 towards central Portugal, and the A-1 to Madrid and Algeciras.
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Old June 9th, 2015, 05:48 PM   #5320
alserrod
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I remember once in winter seeing many foreing plates in the AP1 and no one in the AP68

Chris... About 6 cents more or less of fuel price can change depending on the region you are (regional taxes). Basque country has been the cheapest area you have crossed (same prices in Aragon). Other regions can be a little upper or till 6 cts/l more expensive
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