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Old June 9th, 2015, 05:58 PM   #5321
Highway89
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Cantabria decided to stop collecting that tax on petrol since 1-1-2015. Nowadays Aragón, La Rioja, Navarra, Cantabria and the Basque Country are the only regions that don't collect regional taxes on petrol.

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Old June 9th, 2015, 06:08 PM   #5322
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I'm surprised you didn't mention the roundabout at the N-620/A-66 junction in Salamanca. It's much worse, IMO, than the TOTSO in the A-7 in Murcia.
The interchange between A-7 and A-92 in Almería is also a roundabout. However, they carry very little traffic. The TOTSO in Murcia carries tons of traffic, A-7 carries 102,000 vehicles per day at that point. A-66 at Salamanca carries only 17,000 vehicles per day.
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Old June 9th, 2015, 07:33 PM   #5323
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Thx for the info about fuel taxes. In addition, Canary islands have it too (but no VAT and lower prices of course, but they also apply)

I didn't know about Cantabria situation. Last summer I was looking to refuel somewhere beyond Bilbao through Santander. I wanted to do in the Basque country because I thought it would be cheaper but finnally I did here

https://www.google.es/maps/@43.34093...8nlEzSk58A!2e0

and didn't noticed about prices there.


BTW Chris, where is the regional border thread?. It is because I've noticed that stone in the right of the road (it is the road that runs over the Cantabric sea, the only way before A-8) points the border Cantabria-Basque country in the main road.
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Old June 9th, 2015, 08:12 PM   #5324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The interchange between A-7 and A-92 in Almería is also a roundabout. However, they carry very little traffic. The TOTSO in Murcia carries tons of traffic, A-7 carries 102,000 vehicles per day at that point. A-66 at Salamanca carries only 17,000 vehicles per day.
A-7 in Murcia is total crap -that interchange produces tons of congestion and the fact that it's a TOTSO makes it very confusing. It just doesn't make any sense. The motorway South of the interchange is substandard, too. In fact, the whole A-7 between there and Lorca is not exactly the best road in Spain. It's a bit shocking considering the monstruous amount of regional motorways Murcia has for its population -it even has two motorway-grade stubs to reach an airport that has no flights. Essentially, before 2008 the regional government of Murcia thought the whole region was to become Florida, but Fomento thought otherwise.
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Old June 9th, 2015, 09:16 PM   #5325
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First time I drove A-7 in Murcia, coming from Alicante I ended up in A-30 towards Cartagena instead of in A-7 towards Granada. It's very confusing and there's always plenty of traffic there.

In my opinion, the whole section of A-7 between Crevillent (AP-7 junction towards Cartagena) and Lorca should be widened to 2x3, or at least between Crevillent and Murcia.

There were also plans to build a parallel tolled motorway (AP-37) between AP-7 in Catral and Murcia, following the railway line. If built as a free motorway, it could be a good alternative to the widening of A-7, as it would divert a good portion of local traffic now using A-7 to access towns such as Orihuela or Callosa de Segura.
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Old June 9th, 2015, 10:30 PM   #5326
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SE-30 is a inter-city expressway, and I wouldn't blame it's quality (Guadalquivir bridge is 5+4 if I remember right while I was driving there) so much, specially when SE-40 is getting built, though quite slowly. They build "too well" motorways where nobody lives or bypassing cities really far from the actual city, but don't focus on the most important (and quite cheap) widening projects around the bigger cities in Spain, that's true.
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Old June 9th, 2015, 11:40 PM   #5327
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First time I drove A-7 in Murcia, coming from Alicante I ended up in A-30 towards Cartagena instead of in A-7 towards Granada. It's very confusing and there's always plenty of traffic there.

In my opinion, the whole section of A-7 between Crevillent (AP-7 junction towards Cartagena) and Lorca should be widened to 2x3, or at least between Crevillent and Murcia.

There were also plans to build a parallel tolled motorway (AP-37) between AP-7 in Catral and Murcia, following the railway line. If built as a free motorway, it could be a good alternative to the widening of A-7, as it would divert a good portion of local traffic now using A-7 to access towns such as Orihuela or Callosa de Segura.
As I said before, when A-33 is complete A-7 between Crevillent and Murcia will cease to be a problem, at least for long-distance traffic. That interchange, however, will still be a pain in the back. I also got on the wrong road once .
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Old June 10th, 2015, 10:52 AM   #5328
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What's the difference between;

* Arroyo
* Barranca
* Rivera
* Río
* Riera

They are all some kind of (dry) river. I've seen these posted at bridges in Spain.
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Old June 10th, 2015, 11:09 AM   #5329
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Rio is river
Arroyo is creek

(I had those words in a listening English exam... the statement said something about a creek and later three options to choose... and the nearest was a river. Obviously river was never said in the listening record)

Barranco is a dry creek. It will have water only whilst storm period. Big creeks for several days and dry the rest of the year

RiBera is the shoulder of a river but, often, only used when big rivers

Riera is a Catalan word
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Old June 10th, 2015, 12:13 PM   #5330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
What's the difference between;

* Arroyo
* Barranca
* Rivera
* Río
* Riera

They are all some kind of (dry) river. I've seen these posted at bridges in Spain.
It really varies from region to region, due to the different climates and rainfall patterns.

Río = river. It usually refers to a continuous current of water, although in the Mediterranean area they can be dry during summer months.

Arroyo / Rivera = stream or brook. Again, it usually refers to a continuous current of water, but narrower and with steeper slopes than a river.

Barranco/Barranca/Riera/Rambla = Torrent. Ramblas are usually closer to the sea, while barrancos are usually found on steeper terrain. In the eastern part of La Rioja, we have another word for that: Yasa. Here's an example: https://goo.gl/maps/MNcIT
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Old June 10th, 2015, 03:44 PM   #5331
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If you've been to Barcelona you'll probably know "La Rambla", one of the city's main boulevards and tourist attractions. Its name comes precisely from an old Rambla, a dry brook/ravine, located just beyond the walls of the old town (today's Gothic Quarter).
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Old June 10th, 2015, 03:45 PM   #5332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic_carlos View Post
If you've been to Barcelona you'll probably know "La Rambla", one of the city's main boulevards and tourist attractions. Its name comes precisely from an old Rambla, a dry brook/ravine, located just beyond the walls of the old town (today's Gothic Quarter).
Hasn't Valencia built an expressway on the site of an old torrent that was channeled out elsewhere?
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Old June 10th, 2015, 04:04 PM   #5333
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Originally Posted by arctic_carlos View Post
If you've been to Barcelona you'll probably know "La Rambla", one of the city's main boulevards and tourist attractions. Its name comes precisely from an old Rambla, a dry brook/ravine, located just beyond the walls of the old town (today's Gothic Quarter).
I will look forward the little village where part of my family comes from. There is a "Calle Barranco". It is the second mainest one (a little village and main one is the own road that crosses the village).

Easy to guess the reason of the name.
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Old June 10th, 2015, 05:01 PM   #5334
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Hasn't Valencia built an expressway on the site of an old torrent that was channeled out elsewhere?
Not exactly.

River Túria was diverted south of the city to avoid floods. Mediterranean rivers carry usually few water, but when there are heavy rains the consequences can be dramatic.

Fortunately they converted the old riverbed through the city center into a huge park, not into an expressway.
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Old June 10th, 2015, 05:04 PM   #5335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
* Rivera
Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
RiBera is the shoulder of a river but, often, only used when big rivers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway89 View Post
Arroyo / Rivera = stream or brook. Again, it usually refers to a continuous current of water, but narrower and with steeper slopes than a river.
Just a remark: don't confuse between rivera and ribera. These are two different words, and alserrod and Highway89 have defined them correctly. But when seen in a bridge sign it only should appear rivera, which is the only word that defines a stream (and it's surprising how many native Spanish speakers don't know that word).
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Old June 10th, 2015, 05:07 PM   #5336
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I think I've seen the word 'rivera' mostly in Extremadura.
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Old June 10th, 2015, 09:19 PM   #5337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic_carlos View Post
Not exactly.

River Túria was diverted south of the city to avoid floods. Mediterranean rivers carry usually few water, but when there are heavy rains the consequences can be dramatic.

Fortunately they converted the old riverbed through the city center into a huge park, not into an expressway.
Google Maps has some nice imagery of the expressway running on both shores of the new riverbed. AFAIK, they built the Southern roadway first, and then the Northern one.

The Turia looks (and is) indeed dry during most of the year, but the main problem with these rivers are flash floods. The deviation of the Turia, called Plan Sur, was planned after the 1957 floods that devastated the city.
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Old June 10th, 2015, 10:33 PM   #5338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Some notes
I was in Spain by car last month but in north-east only (not south-west of Valencia-Madrid-Santander). I agree most of your impressions but some are different.

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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The capacity of the motorways is generally very generous.
Yes but I think most of them - where I drove - are justified. Maybe except AP2 Lleida-Barcelona which seems to be waste of money.

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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Also notable (to me at least) was the fact that at many gas stations they would pump the gas for you.
I had only one gas station with service. On A2 just west of Zaragossa. In general, almost every exit has "gas station" signs but I had bad experience on A8 Santander-Bilbao. Due to the fact that almost every interchange had signs, I tried to wait quite long until I exited. The first gas station was closed. The 2nd gas station was too far from the exit (I saw it from the motorway and it was a too long detour), and there was no gas station at all at the 3rd one but there was a junction with three opportunities. The first was a dead end but it was a very scenic location! Afterwards, I took the road to the coast, I passed a small village but... No gas station. And the road led backwards. I took the uphill road and drove on a small road next to the motorway. The gas station was exactly at the next exit about 2-3km ahead .

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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
As others have pointed out to me, driving in Spain is quite relaxing.
Spanish drivers are quite well behaved. They don't hog left lanes, use signals, and don't speed excessively.
Agree. I was very surprised and a little bit disappointed because I like the Italian chaos on roads very much .
It was strange to see the polite behavior at roundabouts and crosswalks.

In general, (north-eastern) Spain looks similar to Italy but most of the region seems to be new and clean, for instance like Germany.

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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Other than that I had a blast driving in Spain. It was by far the longest road trip I've ever driven (6577 km) and I've seen many regions of Spain. It is such a varied country.
I just drove 5,987km but in 5 days because I had two long-distance drives through France and I enjoy driving generally. How many days was your trip?
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Old June 10th, 2015, 10:39 PM   #5339
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Maybe except AP2 Lleida-Barcelona which seems to be waste of money.
AP-2 was the original motorway from Lleida to Barcelona, completed in 1977. A-2 wasn't completed until 2004.

Quote:
I just drove 5,987km but in 5 days because I had two long-distance drives through France and I enjoy driving generally. How many days was your trip?
My trip was 10 days (I planned 12 days but the weather sucked along the north coast). I wanted to do a little more than just driving. I only had two days of 900 km trips. Most days were only 3 - 5 hours of driving, so I had plenty of time left to relax, read a book, swim in the sea or visit landmarks.
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Old June 10th, 2015, 10:46 PM   #5340
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Regarding fuel stations, I assume western Zaragoza you were in the AP-68 (tolled) and not in the A-68/N-232 (I ALWAYS avoid N-232).

A tolled motorway must have, by law, more or less one fuel station every 30 km more or less opening 16h per day and one out of two must open 24/7.

It is possible to have one of them out of duty due to works and they must sign it in the entrance of the motorway (but it can be just a pannel written in Spanish only).

Anyway, besides Sobradiel station opens 24h, near Gallur opens 7-23, near Tudela 24h again, near Calahorra 7-23 and approaching Logroño 24h. Beyond Logroño I do not know by head the location of every station but these ones are in the AP-68

In addition, if you get the toll ticket (this is, you do not use electronic payment), you will have in the reverse written the name of all exits with the kilometre number, name of those exits and location of fuel station. I would state that all tolled motorway do it.


If you drove Barcelona-Zaragoza I remember that they point the price of fuel in the next three stations. It seems not to have sense because all stations are from the same company and same prices...
well it has sense!!!, if you travel through west, after this station (included) https://www.google.es/maps/place/225...8beeb0f028f554 price is 4,8 cents less due to regional taxes.
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