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Old October 13th, 2015, 09:13 PM   #5721
verreme
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I wish we had Spanish roundabouts in the Netherlands though. They are much more spacious and comfortable than the low speed, sharp turn roundabouts over here.

Dutch roundabouts are built in such a way that you enter and exit the roundabout from the center of the roundabout, the roadway hardly forks out so they allow the lowest speed possible when turning on and off a roundabout.

On the other hand the turbo roundabouts may be more efficient / predictable than multi-lane roundabouts in Spain. I've seen people driving pretty much straight ahead on oversized 3-lane roundabouts with little traffic.
I'd love to see Dutch turbo-roundabouts in Spain. Signage is so clear that you can't just pick the wrong lane. Spanish multi-roundabouts are designed in a way that they encourage taking the racing line through them -an instant recipe for accidents. Plus, everybody has a different way to go round them and driving schools don't seem to agree on which way is better: some people (like me) are taught to use the leftmost lane when turning left, and some other people to only use the leftmost lane to overtake (which is pretty awkward -overtaking in a roiundabout?). I've seen friendships ending due to a discussion on which way is the one .

I agree that Dutch or German one-lane roundabouts are too small, but we should find an intermediate solution. IMHO, two-lane turbo roundabouts should be the way to go. Three- (or four-) lane roundabouts should just be scrapped. Most of them are showoff things anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The long Benicarló and Vinaròs bypass of N-340 opens to traffic next Thursday. It is an 18 kilometer long super two, completely grade-separated.

http://www.elmundo.es/comunidad-vale...7268b45a2.html
Awesome news. This would mean a free-flow drive on N-340 between the terminus of A-7 in L'Hospitalet de l'Infant and A-7 in Castelló -but a set of roundabouts is on its way to ruin this drive .
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Old October 13th, 2015, 09:45 PM   #5722
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Originally Posted by radko View Post
Hi, when were build autopistas? It's weird, there are so much sections. I compare Spain : Por ej., poor Poland, Nigeria, Bulgaria too.
That's a pitty, older maps don't show dual-carriageways, only motorways. When were completed:
Madrid - Badajos, Madrid - La Coruňa, Valladolid - Santander, Madrid - Murcia, Madrid - Sevilla and Granada, Sevilla - Murcia etc. I'm interest history of roads. I draw map of building total net motorways 2x2 (from eartly 70s) if you send map, sketch, text about it to me. Later I post.
I suprised, that in Spain is very little 2 × 3 section: Barcelona, Valencia, Madrid and North-Eastern areas.
You can always check the Spanish Wikipedia, since most articles include the year in which every stretch was opened: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anexo:...de_Espa%C3%B1a

Additionally, if you're fluent in Spanish you can also check old articles on newspapers such as El País or ABC. For instance:

A-5 Madrid-Badajoz: completed in 1995
1995-11-25 Almaraz - Jaraicejo (source: http://www.elperiodicoextremadura.co...es_206317.html)
1992-11-30 Trujillo - Miajadas, Mérida - Badajoz, bypass of Valmojado (source: http://elpais.com/diario/1992/12/01/...57_850215.html)

I've been able to find this:

Kilometers of Autovía or Autopista opened from 1984 to July 1990:


Source: http://hemeroteca.sevilla.abc.es/nav...06/25/041.html

Stretches opened during the months of June and July 1990:



Status of the different Autovías in August 1991:
*: Opened
Dot (·): U/C
Square: Construction not started

Source: http://hemeroteca.abc.es/nav/Navigat...07/28/044.html

Status of the different Autovías at the end of 1991:

Source: http://hemeroteca.abc.es/nav/Navigat...12/08/048.html

Stretches opened in 1992:

(Trim. = quarter of the year, so 4º Trim means October-November-December)
Source: http://hemeroteca.abc.es/nav/Navigat...03/03/015.html

Stretches opened during the summer of 1992:

Source: http://hemeroteca.abc.es/nav/Navigat...06/28/086.html

Stretches opened in 1993:

Source: http://hemeroteca.abc.es/nav/Navigat...04/30/075.html
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Old October 13th, 2015, 10:00 PM   #5723
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1.000 kilometers in a single year. Those were the days
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Old October 13th, 2015, 10:06 PM   #5724
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
Awesome news. This would mean a free-flow drive on N-340 between the terminus of A-7 in L'Hospitalet de l'Infant and A-7 in Castelló -but a set of roundabouts is on its way to ruin this drive .
I hope it won't be clogged with trucks... That's the major downside of super-twos, convoys of trucks inhibit safe passing options. 2+1 would allow for safer passing of slower vehicles.

I drove AP-7 in June and there are hardly any trucks driving the toll road, a very low amount considering the large urban and agricultural areas it supposedly connects. According to Fomento the truck share on N-340 is in the 30-40% range which is really high for a two-lane road.
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Old October 13th, 2015, 10:42 PM   #5725
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I hope it won't be clogged with trucks... That's the major downside of super-twos, convoys of trucks inhibit safe passing options. 2+1 would allow for safer passing of slower vehicles.

I drove AP-7 in June and there are hardly any trucks driving the toll road, a very low amount considering the large urban and agricultural areas it supposedly connects. According to Fomento the truck share on N-340 is in the 30-40% range which is really high for a two-lane road.
According to Fomento, there's a new plan coming this year to "encourage" trucks to take the toll roads in exchange for discounts in tolls. I don't think it's going to work because trucks can easily drive 90 km/h along the whole of N-340 in Tarragona and Castellón. The Catalan regional government banned transit trucks on N-II in Girona province, and driving there is definitely better than before. However, banning trucks from N-340 would require a widening on AP-7 to cope with summer traffic, and this motorway is not profitable enough for the concessionaire to cope with this investment.

What they could also do in some stretches of N-340 is getting rid of those goddamn 1970s 2.5-meter wide hard shoulders and retrofit them to 2+1 plus narrow shoulders and a guardrail median with occasional at-grade intersections. But this is extremely unlikely since it hasn't been done before, and also because of the autovía-or-nothing mentality of Fomento.
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Old October 14th, 2015, 02:27 AM   #5726
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
Plus, everybody has a different way to go round them and driving schools don't seem to agree on which way is better: some people (like me) are taught to use the leftmost lane when turning left, and some other people to only use the leftmost lane to overtake (which is pretty awkward -overtaking in a roiundabout?). I've seen friendships ending due to a discussion on which way is the one .
.
They mix up everything when explaining this. Roundabouts are simply circular streets or roads so the general traffic rules still apply there.

- If there isn't a yield sign et the entry point (appart from not technicaly being a roundabout), the ones that are inside the roundabout have to yield to those entering it as they are comming from the right side.

- If it's an urban roundabout, it's considered a street, you can choose the lane that better suits your route (imho. it uses to be the right lane for turning right and going straight and the left lane for turning left and u-turns, but if it's a roundabout that you know well, you might learn which is the best lane for you, e.g., if it's a roundabout in which almost everybody turns right, then the left lane is better for going straight). You can overake using any lane (although this doesn't usually make any sense).

- If it's a inter-urban roundabout, it's considered a road. You should always use the right lane except for overtaking. Thankfully the traffic conditions are an exception for this as the general rules doesn't make any sense in these roundabouts.

- You are not supposed to leave the roundabout from an inner lane, instead you should change to the rightermost lane before leaving it (ok, I know that actually it's physically impossible to not pass over the rightermost lane for exiting a roundabout, I mean that you are supposed to be driving in that lane before exiting).

- You must use the blinkers to change of lane and for leaving the roundabout. Technically you are also supposed to use the right blinker for joining it but it again doesn't make any sense.

Appart from these general rules, there are some etiquette rules more or less followed on top of the general rules that make some sense:

- Using the right blinker if you are leaving through the next exit. If your exit is the first one, you should turn it on before entering; if not, you should turn it on as soon as you pass the previous exit and before the previous entry. You should try to get into the right lane as soon as you turn on your blinker.
This way you prevent new cars entering to the roundabout in your way as you will have to use the right lane sooner than later. Also, cars from the following entry after your exit can anticipate your movement and use the gap that you are leaving in a more safe and efficient way.

- Using the left blinker if you are turning left or u-turning (i.e. you have to run through more than 180º before taking your exit or your exit is more than 2 exits away). It is not "required" to turn off your blinker when you are less than 180º or 2 exits away, but it helps. You should use one of the inner lanes in this situation.
This way you allow other cars to use the right lane for "short trips" while you make it to your exit.

- Don't laughting on people that miss their exit and have to do the complete circle once (or twice) again. (Ok, you can laught but don't let them see that you are laughting, they know it but they don't need to confirm their suspicions).

- PLEASE, DON'T USE THE RIGHT LANE FOR TURNING LEFT OR U-TURNING. Of course you are legally allowed to do so, but you are blocking both the traffic that has to enter in the roundabout and the traffic that has to leave it.

- You can ignore the lanes (of course not legally but practically) if doing so doesn't interfere wih any other traffic (so this is almost only appropiate on very low traffic situations). This shouldn't prevent you from using the blinkers to indicate which exit you are taking.
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Old October 14th, 2015, 04:36 PM   #5727
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Seeing those openings from the 90's, I guess if these motorways were to be built today they would be done in shorter sections, for example the Arcos de Jalon-Alhama [de Aragon] section of then N-II (now A-2) would be split into three at the Castile and Leon/Aragon border and at Ariza.

BTW, notice how A-3 between Honrubia Atalaya del Canavate and Utiel wasn't planned to be built in this round.
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Old October 14th, 2015, 10:04 PM   #5728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OriK View Post
- If it's an urban roundabout, it's considered a street, you can choose the lane that better suits your route (imho. it uses to be the right lane for turning right and going straight and the left lane for turning left and u-turns, but if it's a roundabout that you know well, you might learn which is the best lane for you, e.g., if it's a roundabout in which almost everybody turns right, then the left lane is better for going straight). You can overake using any lane (although this doesn't usually make any sense).

- If it's a inter-urban roundabout, it's considered a road. You should always use the right lane except for overtaking. Thankfully the traffic conditions are an exception for this as the general rules doesn't make any sense in these roundabouts.
See? That's what I meant when I said everyone has his or her own approach to driving on a roundabout. What you say is something I hadn't heard before, and I've already had many arguments about this. The fact that the Spanish driving code does not clear this grey area only makes it worse. We should a)get ride of those multi-lane roundabouts and b)clear it out in our driving code.
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Old October 14th, 2015, 10:36 PM   #5729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Maybe they mean a widening to four lanes with roundabouts, like N-340 along the Costa del Sol (which is even signed as A-7!)
I just remembered that, according to official plans, A-7 south of El Perelló (if it is ever built) is not going to be built following the current N-340 corridor, but further inland, close to AP-7. From El Perelló it will continue towards Camp-Redó, then Santa Bàrbara, Godall, Sant Rafel del Riu, Traiguera and La Jana, where it will connect to the extension of CV-10 (which by then will be a motorway and probably renamed into A-7).

That's why the by-passes of L'Aldea and Vinaròs-Benicarló in N-340 have not been built with motorway standards, as they're not going to be part of A-7.

http://www.lavanguardia.com/economia...l-perello.html

http://www.elmundo.es/comunidad-vale...3268b456e.html

And here the official press release regarding L'Hospitalet de l'Infant - El Perelló section.

http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyr...08APROBACE.pdf
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Old October 14th, 2015, 11:14 PM   #5730
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A8: Torrelavega – San Vitores 25.5km (? to Fall 2015) – ? – map

The final section of A8 is announced to be opened on Saturday, 17th October 2015. Source.
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

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Old October 15th, 2015, 01:19 AM   #5731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
See? That's what I meant when I said everyone has his or her own approach to driving on a roundabout. What you say is something I hadn't heard before, and I've already had many arguments about this. The fact that the Spanish driving code does not clear this grey area only makes it worse. We should a)get ride of those multi-lane roundabouts and b)clear it out in our driving code.
Yes, but the fact that the code doesn't make any special mention to roundabouts means that they aren't a special case so general rules still apply.

Think on the anticlockwise sense of the M-40 as a huge roundabout! It's not that different, it's just much bigger and with motorway standards (so it allows a much higher speed).

There is some information from official sources on how you are supposed to use them:

Car A (blue): Good usage: uses the righternmost lane and correctly signals when leaving.
Car B (green): Good usage: it's using an inner lane but changes to the right lane before exiting.
Car C (red): Bad usage: it's cutting the trajectory of other vehicles. It should have changed to the right lane before exiting.
Cad D (orange): Bad usage: it's following a trajectory that cuts other vehicles trajectories.
Car E (pink): Bad usage: the trajectory is good but not the changes of lanes insde the roundabout.

Other resources:
Why should I exit from the outernmost lane?
-> This video clarifies that the fact that you are circulating in circles doesn't change the rules.

In this video, a cop literally enforces the rule of using the outernmost lane when leaving a roundabout.
-> Some drivers even block the roundabout because they don't understand his instructions.

Efficient way of using a roundabout.
-> There's the legal way of using a roundabout, and there's the legal and efficient way of using it. This has more to do with the "etiquette" that I mentioned in my previous post.

All the information here: http://revista.dgt.es/es/reportajes/...lorietas.shtml
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Old October 16th, 2015, 09:45 PM   #5732
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Sevilla - Granada (7/10/2015)

SE-30


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Old October 17th, 2015, 12:44 AM   #5733
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Signage along the A-92 seems kind of messy, old and slightly out of standard.
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Old October 17th, 2015, 02:15 PM   #5734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
A57: A Ermida – Vilaboa 6.5km (October 2015 to ?) – ? – map

The construction of the first A57 section will begin in October 2015, see press release (21st September 2015). Please refer to wikipedia for more details about the future A57.
There will be an official groundbreaking ceremony on 19th October 2015. Source.


Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic_carlos View Post
The press release gives the following information:

1) Sections that have been recently put into service by the current government:

- Nueno-Congosto de Isuela
- Sabiñánigo Sur-Sabiñánigo Este
- Arguis-Alto de Monrepós

2) Sections currently under construction:

- Alto de Monrepós-Caldearenas*
- Caldearenas-Lanave*

3) Sections where works will be resumed next year:

- Congosto de Isuela-Arguis*

4) Sections that will be tendered next year:

- Sabiñánigo Este-Sabiñánigo Oeste


* I am not 100% sure if these sections are currently under construction or if their works are currently suspended and the government plans to resume them next year; the wording used in the press release "en 2016 continuarán las obras de los tramos (...)" can mean both that works are ongoing and will continue and that works will be resumed.

In any event I've checked the wikipedia (https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autov%C3%ADa_Mud%C3%A9jar) and i've classified these sections according to what it says.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CNGL View Post
It only doesn't say what would happen with the Lanave-Jabarrella reservoir and Jabarrella reservoir-Sabinanigo South. I guess they will be re-tendered.
There's a new press release. If I got it right, construction works of the Congosto de Isuela-Arguis section are not yet resumed but will be resumed later this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
A8: Torrelavega – San Vitores 25.5km (? to Fall 2015) – ? – map

The final section of A8 is announced to be opened on Saturday, 17th October 2015. Source.
It seems to be delayed... Source. Is there any new estimated opening date?


A54:
Palas-West – Guntin-North 14.9km (? to October 2015) – ? – map

I'm not sure if I got it right and couldn't find any other source but A54 seems to be opened this weekend? Source .
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

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Been/driven: A, AND, B, CDN, CH, CZ, D, DK, E, EST, F, FIN, FL, GB, H, I, L, LV, LT, N, NL, P, PL, RO, S, SLO, USA (My cumulative travel mapping)

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Old October 17th, 2015, 02:38 PM   #5735
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Granada - Roquetas de Mar (7/10/2015)

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Old October 17th, 2015, 02:50 PM   #5736
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A49 (7/10/2015)

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Old October 17th, 2015, 06:33 PM   #5737
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The A-92 must be the most photographed Autovía in Spain
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Old October 17th, 2015, 06:45 PM   #5738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The long Benicarló and Vinaròs bypass of N-340 opens to traffic next Thursday. It is an 18 kilometer long super two, completely grade-separated.

http://www.elmundo.es/comunidad-vale...7268b45a2.html
Here a video with the full area between Benicarló (South) IC and Vinaròs-Ulldecona IC with the N238.


11:20 to 25:30

I think the government didn't show to the press the Vinaròs (North) JCT with the double and weird roundabout because is not finished. Well, some parts of the Benicarló (South) JCT aren't finished but is less obvious.

IMO: Directional signals with bad design (specially for the Industrial Zones, Rail Station, Hospitals) and other important historic villages that appears in the N340a (Sant Mateu and Morella) but omitted in the new bypass.

Many small directional signals using the infamous italian system and all to say the same: "path" Which "path"? But you can find 4, 5 or 6 "path" signals in a roundabout

Lack of good service road. In fact the road is ready to duplicate, but that will never happen.

The final result, for the cars in transit, the situation on the old bypass is the same: too much traffic but without trucks... except several trucks companies based on the sides of the N340a and other logistic areas or Industries away from an easy entrance: I'm thinking in the Central Benicarló IC connection via the CV-135, the road was widened in part but look this pass under the rail line https://goo.gl/maps/ZgKqR7om4y32
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Old October 17th, 2015, 07:54 PM   #5739
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When was the Santa Fe-access to Granada opened?... Looks like A-5 in Madrid, it even features a traffic light.
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Old October 18th, 2015, 03:01 PM   #5740
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The infamous MP-203 autopista along the eastern edge of Madrid. Construction works have ceased since 2007, leaving an unfinished motorway.

A small part opened in 2013 as part of the M-206 autovía to Loeches. The M-206 is built partially over the MP-203 alignment.

This Google Earth imagery shows that no effort has been made to construct an M-206 / MP-203 interchange, suggesting the government has little faith in MP-203 ever being completed.



edit: at a closer look, it appears that the autovía is not M-206, but a segment of MP-203. They run side-by-side underneath the high-speed rail.


Last edited by ChrisZwolle; October 18th, 2015 at 03:16 PM.
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