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Old December 30th, 2007, 10:22 PM   #561
ChrisZwolle
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Quote:
But it was in summer and there were lots of tourists, so probably the traffic is better during the winter.
Well, a lot of people stay on the Costa del Sol during the winter from Europe.
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Old December 30th, 2007, 11:21 PM   #562
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Yet summer time should be worse due to more tourists and some Europe - Africa routes as A7 / AP7

In Mallorca there's much more traffic in summer time as many tourists drive their rented cars, but this occur mostly on the roads to touristic areas. The good thing is that traffic is better spread through the day and rush hour is not that bad as childs dont have school and many people have holidays. On the other hand many people have a house by the sea, so they still have to drive to their jobs and commute further. Overall mobility demand is way higher, but traffic jams are shorter :-)
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Old December 30th, 2007, 11:31 PM   #563
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Why is A-4 still so bad quality near Madrid? You know, very badly constructed junctions, very many exits, bad pavement...

http://maps.google.fi/?ie=UTF8&ll=40...&t=k&z=18&om=1

http://maps.google.fi/?ie=UTF8&ll=40...&t=k&z=18&om=1

http://maps.google.fi/?ie=UTF8&ll=40...&t=k&z=18&om=1

http://maps.google.fi/?ie=UTF8&ll=40...&t=k&z=18&om=1

http://maps.google.fi/?ie=UTF8&ll=40...&t=k&z=18&om=1

Last edited by RV; December 30th, 2007 at 11:47 PM.
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Old December 30th, 2007, 11:42 PM   #564
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Because the A-4 is substandard there. But you can take the R-4.

I hope it will be reconstructed though. The A-5 is also in very old conditions here.
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Old December 31st, 2007, 12:06 AM   #565
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In general, the quality of A1,A2,A3 and A4 is far lower than the rest of the Spanish network, as they were built in the 80s upgrading the old National roads.

Consequently, the Ministery of Public Works has developed a plan worth in 6,344 M€ to improve 2,131 km of that motorways. It's expected to be finished in 2011/2012.
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Old December 31st, 2007, 12:54 AM   #566
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Also, the sections near Madrid (which are the worst) on many of those autovias will be enlarged with new dedicated lanes to buses, which will imply a rearrange of accesses, which will solve those problems.
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Old December 31st, 2007, 12:25 PM   #567
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Now 2007 is almost over, I have decided to make a summarize of the motorways opened this year, checking lastest press reports of the Ministery of Public Works. Notice these are only motorways owned by the Spanish State, while the Autonomus Comunities and local municipalities build and own roads as well.

January
A45 Fernán Nuñez-Montilla 10.6km 49M€
A48 Conil Frontera-Vejer Frontera 8.1km 33M€
A66 Aljucén-Mérida 9.9km 34M€

February
AC10 Av.Molina-Av.Pasaje 1.4km 22M€

March
A7 Nerja-La Herradura 9.5km 151M€

April
A66 Zamora Norte-Río Duero 11.3km 43M€
A66 Fuente de Cantos-L.P.Huelva 26.2km 95M€
A8 Cadavedo-Otur 14.2km

May
A8 Ribadeo-Reinante 10km 58M€

June
A8 Vilalba-Abeledo 11.6km 59M€

July
A23 Romanos-Torrubia 41.7km 144M€
A8 Ballota-Cadavedo 6km 33M€

August


September
A12 Variante Navarrete-Nájera 9.5km 33M€

October
A63 Llera-Grado 8.8km 40M€

November
A67 Puebla S.Vicente-Aguilar de Campoo 12.7km 66M€

December
A2 Caldes-Fornells 8.4km 48M€
A7 Albuñol-Adra 10.5km 115M€

I guess the amount is lower than in previous years, as nowadays the Central Government is more focused on HSR. However, I am pretty sure we will see lots of new Autovías opened in the next months as we have National Elections on March.
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Old December 31st, 2007, 12:40 PM   #568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stifler View Post
I guess the amount is lower than in previous years, as nowadays the Central Government is more focused on HSR. However, I am pretty sure we will see lots of new Autovías opened in the next months as we have National Elections on March.
Maybe because left-wing politicians tend to like public transportation more than roads, you know, the whole "collective" thing. Well, at least the road construction didn't come to a stillstand, like we can expect if left-wing politicans became in power in the Netherlands. I see Zapatero took some actions which would be highly controversial in the Netherlands, like the program of amnesty for undocumented immigrants.

Do they expect a change of government in the upcoming elections?
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Old December 31st, 2007, 01:31 PM   #569
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And these are the motorway streches which started their construction in 2007. Again, only those developed by the Ministery of Public Works (Spanish State).

January
A8 Lorenzana-Villamar 10.3km 31M€
A8 Touzas-Castromayor 5.6km 24M€
S20? Parbayón-Cacicedo 6km 67M€
A8 Villalba-Touzas 9km 29M€

February
B40 Olesa-Viladecavalls 6.1km 130M€
MA30 Ronda Oeste Málaga 9km 155M€
A8 Mondoñedo-Lorenzana 3.6km 29M€
A8 Abadín-Castromayor 3.8km 14M€
SE40 La Rinconada- Alcalá Guadaira 8.2km 90M€
A22 La Cerdera-Variante Almacelles 4.2km 17M€
A7 Almuñecar-Salobreña 7.8km 84M€

March
A40 Sta.Cruz-Tarancón 13.3km 31M€
A58 Plasenzuela-Sta.Marta 14.1km 33M€
AG1 Verín-Portugal 11.3km 43M€
B40 Abrera-Olesa 2.2km 39M€
A27 Tarragona-El Morell 7.8km 40M€
A67 Cornellana-Salas 6km 60M€

April


May
A8 Lindín-Mondoñedo 5.5km 51M€
A22 Siétamo-Velillas 5.2km 19M€

June
A22 Var.Binéfar - L.P.Huesca 6.8km 31M€
A23 Congosto-Arguis 3.3km 42M€
BU30 Quintanadueñas-Villímar 8km 64 M€
A27 El Morell-Var.Valls 9.5km 55M€
A27 Variante de Valls 5km 25M€

July
A63 Salas-La Espina 11.7 41M€
A15 Radona-Sauquillo 14km 37M€
AC? Zapateira-A6 6km 60M€

August
A22 Variante Binéfar 13.8km 39M€

September
SE40 Conex A92-Conex A376 6km 59M€
SE40 Conex A376-Conex A4 8.1km 59M€
A8 Abadín-Careira 4.8km 31M€

October
MU31 Conex.A30-Conex.MU30 3.2km 42M€
S20? S.Salvador Heras-Parbayón 4.1km 47M€
N332 Sueca-Sollana 8.2km 36M€

November


December
A15 Medinaceli-Radona 12.1km 69M€
A44 Albolote-Santa Fé 72M€
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Last edited by Stifler; December 31st, 2007 at 02:44 PM.
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Old December 31st, 2007, 01:42 PM   #570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
Maybe because left-wing politicians tend to like public transportation more than roads, you know, the whole "collective" thing. Well, at least the road construction didn't come to a stillstand, like we can expect if left-wing politicans became in power in the Netherlands.
Well, there aren't big differences between socialists and conservatives in Spain in terms of economy/infraestructures. They mainly disagree in stuff related with Spanish identity, political organization, religion or international relationships.

I guess the reason for the great press coverage of HSR is that Spaniards love infraestructure (sometimes in a ridiculous way), so after getting a pretty decent motorway network we needed a new big project.

Fortunately, that won't mean motorways will be forgotten at all. Infraestructure Plan 2005-2020 will spend 66,800 M€ in roads and 121,200 M€ in railways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
Do they expect a change of government in the upcoming elections?
Almost impossible.
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Old December 31st, 2007, 01:57 PM   #571
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I guess the reason for the great press coverage of HSR is that Spaniards love infraestructure (sometimes in a ridiculous way), so after getting a pretty decent motorway network we needed a new big project.
Yeah, you must know, we are really look up to you guys how much money you can invest in infrastructure, wether it are roads or rails. The Spanish motorway, subway and AVE network is/will be just phenomenal.

We have a quarter of your population living in an area about the size of the province of Barcelona, yet we only spend like 7 billion annually on infrastructure, this means roads, rail, air, water and dikes!

We are sunken head-deep strangled into environmental-policies, almost no infrastructure project can be constructed, and if we do, they take up so much money we can only do a few projects per year, while our country is clogged up with traffic. A quarter of the country is gridlocked 2 times a day, because our major motorways are no more than a dirt track with 2x2 lanes.

Another problem is urban infrastructure. If i see how nice cities like Logroño have excellent constructed urban expressways, half dug into the ground, an we are still stuck on one lane roads with dozens of traffic lights.
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Old December 31st, 2007, 02:23 PM   #572
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I already knew that environmental policies and lobbies were trying to sabotage any projected road in the Netherlands but the way you tell it it's even more thrilling.

Is it really that difficult for the Government to expropiate some lands/houses and expand the motorways? Damn, people must be upset if they see traffic jams everytime they go to work and I guess there are not suitable alternatives available.

I am afraid we will have to face something similar in the future. All the Spanish regions aren't as infraestructure-friendly either, but places like Madrid are a paradise in that aspect.
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Old December 31st, 2007, 02:37 PM   #573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
Yeah, you must know, we are really look up to you guys how much money you can invest in infrastructure, wether it are roads or rails. The Spanish motorway, subway and AVE network is/will be just phenomenal.

We have a quarter of your population living in an area about the size of the province of Barcelona, yet we only spend like 7 billion annually on infrastructure, this means roads, rail, air, water and dikes!

We are sunken head-deep strangled into environmental-policies, almost no infrastructure project can be constructed, and if we do, they take up so much money we can only do a few projects per year, while our country is clogged up with traffic. A quarter of the country is gridlocked 2 times a day, because our major motorways are no more than a dirt track with 2x2 lanes.

Another problem is urban infrastructure. If i see how nice cities like Logroño have excellent constructed urban expressways, half dug into the ground, an we are still stuck on one lane roads with dozens of traffic lights.
That´s just like in Finland. In the last years, because of the enviromentalists, we are building inneccesary tunnels under forests in the middle of nowhere, because in that forests there are squirrels. I think that´s pathetic. They also build non-motorways that have all motorway standards just beacause neighbors would disagree too much if someone wanted to build a motorway.

An example is Ring road II in Helsinki. It has been planned since 1960 as a ring motorway from Road 51 (Länsiväylä) to Road 7 (E18). The first part was built from Road 51 to Road 1 was finished in 2000. Then it was planned to build from Road 1 to Road 45, but now it will be built only to Road 3 (Hämeenlinna motorway), because between Road 3 and Road 45 there is a forest! The section from Road 1 to Road 3 will have 4 tunnels, 2 of them are innecessary, because they will go just under some forest. They will start building for that section between 2010 and 2016...

Another exaple is the called "Pasila link"/Pasilanväylä. It is an urban motorway/expressway that have been planned since the 1950´s/1960´s. It consists of an urban tunnel that goes from Road 4 to Pasila, the upgrade of Hakamäentie to motorway/expressway and another urban tunnel from Mannerheimintie to Road 1. Fortunately, the central section from Mannerheimintie to eastern Pasila is under construction. It will be finished in 2009. It consists in the upgrading of Hakamäentie, a road of 1 lane in each direction with ADDT of 35 000 vehicles, to motorway. The remaining tunnel sections will be built by 2020...
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Old December 31st, 2007, 04:33 PM   #574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stifler View Post
List of openings
210,4 km in total.

That is more than twice in one year of low construction pace in Spain, than the 100km's opened in the past 17 years in the Netherlands, of which only 40km in the Randstad area.

100 kilometers of motorway to serve the growth of 1,3 million in population
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Old December 31st, 2007, 05:56 PM   #575
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Well, in the Balearic Islands there are strong differences between the right and left side parties, so when the right hand party is in power they build the highways and when left side parties are in charge they build the trains XD

In general leftists tend to hate the highways, though they all use them (funny, hah). However this time left parties may give the go ahead to the second Palma ring as there's an amount of 100€M for the central goverment to build it in the recent years and 250.000 cars a day pass through the Ma-20, or fist Palma ring.

It's also important to note that Balearic islands have the worst fiscal deficit in Europe, so the central government just invest 200€ per person / year when other areas easily recieve 800-1000€. As you can imagine, the region debt is ever-growing so the discussion on how to spend is a damm nightmare and the central government just ignore the needs as we are not politicaly profitable

Not all spanish regions can build highways such easily. The system is neither fair nor effcient, but mainly based on politics. If Spain builds that fast with a less population than other nations, some have to pay for the huge cost.

Last edited by Booze; December 31st, 2007 at 06:02 PM.
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Old December 31st, 2007, 06:53 PM   #576
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It's really impressive,great project,looks way too good for Bilbao imo...
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Old January 1st, 2008, 10:38 PM   #577
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I have a question about the A-7 in the Elche/Alicante area.

Which route does it take exactly? Is it broken? In Elche, you can take the A-7 to the A-31 (north) according to Google Earth, however some maps indicate it goes to Alicante too. Is the A-7 covered by the route of the A-70 and A-77 in Alicante area? I see it starts again north of Alicante in the direction of Alcoy/Castalla. As i understand, the AP-7 forms a new route around Alicante, does this overlap with the A-7 from Elche to the north (A-31)? Both Michelin and Google Earth didn't seem to know the exact route here. Who knows?
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Old January 1st, 2008, 11:07 PM   #578
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I think the A7, coming from the west, passes by Elche. goes in the direction of Alicante, and ends in the conection with A31, west of Alicante. Then it's A70 (alicante 1st ring freeway).
The A7 only appears againg north of the AP7 (Alicantes 2nd ring freeway). Between the A70 and the AP7 it's called A77.
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Old January 2nd, 2008, 12:16 AM   #579
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I think A-7 has two branches on the west end (when you are comming from Murcia). The north branch ends at the A-31/AP-7 junction (it's the west of AP-7 or second ring motorway of Alicante). The south branch ends between Elche and Alicante, 1,7 kilometers before the deviation to Alicante airport, and then it becomes A-70 or first ring motorway of Alicante.

So, a little map:

pk in Spanish means "punto kilométrico", that's kilometric point.

Finally A-7 continues from A-70 and AP-7 junction on the North of Alicante.
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Old January 2nd, 2008, 12:36 AM   #580
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Thanks Reivajar. Strange situation. Why not via the A-70 and A-77? Because they are maintained by the government of the Alicante Province? (if i am correct).
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